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Thread: Korros Tor - Green keeper dying immediately?

  
  1. #1

    Default Korros Tor - Green keeper dying immediately?

    I've recently reinstalled one of my favorite childhood games. Currently working through the Deeper Dungeons missions. I am using the keeperFX mod. On the second map, Korros Tor, I think there may be a bug though. The green keeper to the north keeps dying very early on to some patrolling heroes. From guides and such I gather that this should not be the case. I'd prefer to play the mission as it's supposed to be played, and not with this early advantage. So is this a bug within the mod, or is the map itself just prone to this issue?

  2. #2

    Default Re: Korros Tor - Green keeper dying immediately?

    I've don't remember/know how in the original game this map played out. I've tried a few times though, and while green digs out way to fast on this map (because his rooms are closer to the center gold than the eastern gold he has direct access to) he didn't die.

    That being said, I think this should be improved and green should mine east before digging out. I've listed an issue on the tracker.

  3. #3
    Warlock
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    Default Re: Korros Tor - Green keeper dying immediately?

    Or maybe put up a Green locked door just before the hero lake, forcing you to come to him.
    or that is the question

  4. #4

    Default Re: Korros Tor - Green keeper dying immediately?

    I think that defeats the purpose of the level. Once green is a bit more powerful he should dig out, just like blue, and harass the player. Looking at the map it is clearly intended for the eastern gold to be mined fist, but the AI (for both the original game and in keeperfx) counts distance not from the nearest owned tile, but from the nearest owned room so it doesn't work out as intended.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Korros Tor - Green keeper dying immediately?

    Quote Originally Posted by YourMaster View Post
    I've don't remember/know how in the original game this map played out. I've tried a few times though, and while green digs out way to fast on this map (because his rooms are closer to the center gold than the eastern gold he has direct access to) he didn't die.

    That being said, I think this should be improved and green should mine east before digging out. I've listed an issue on the tracker.
    Thanks. Do you know if the map changed much from the original? Perhaps there is a list of gameplay changes somewhere.

    I started up the map again, and within 1 minute the green keeper mines through to the water and makes contact with the heroes. The opening is just a couple of tiles below his gold.
    Last edited by disregardthat; March 18th, 2016 at 12:06.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Korros Tor - Green keeper dying immediately?

    As far as I know the map is unchanged.
    There is a change list here: https://github.com/dkfans/keeperfx/w...rFX%20releases

    However, that won't help you much, as bugfixes to stats and improvements to the AI can have unforeseen consequences. For example in the original game when a creature got over 255 dexterity because of level ups, he would go back to 0 dexterity. With several bugs like those fixed the balance of the creatures was changed, and even though there have been some attempts to re-balance on particular maps small changes can have big implications. On level 15 of the main campaign the keeper should 'barely survive' when they dig into the main water, but with the knight being just a bit stronger and the keepers digging to gold just a bit sooner they will now often die completely causing you to win the level without doing anything.

    And yes, like I said, I've tried it as well and green opens up right away but when I played he managed to kill the heroes invading with the traps already in the dungeon.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Korros Tor - Green keeper dying immediately?

    I see, I think that I experienced this as well on level 15 when I recently played through the campaign. The green keeper was simply dead, while the blue one was still alive. If it's not rude to ask, what is the the ETA on the Korros Tor fix?

    I think I see how it can be solved by the way. The main issue seems to be that the archers are not getting hit by the lighting traps in front of doors as much, unless it is opened by an enemy and they move towards the door. Perhaps placing lighting traps in two spaces in front of each door will kill them off as well. I observed a couple of iterations of the fight and sometimes the traps killed off the heroes in the end. But as far as consistency goes the green keeper probably should be given a few more traps for good measure.
    Last edited by disregardthat; March 18th, 2016 at 23:28.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Korros Tor - Green keeper dying immediately?

    Just to be clear, I'm just another user and don't actually fix the game so I can't give you Mefistotelis' estimate on when he'll fix it.
    My best guess: Don't expect it soon as he seems to not have had much interest in developing keeperfx over the last few months. And when he'll does work on the game he'll picks up tasks based on whatever he feels like doing (as he should because this is just his hobby) so there's a very small chance that this is the issue to be picked up soon. (Click here for some other issues still open).

    I don't think your solution is the proper way to go however, I don't think the heroes are supposed to die from the traps, I think those are meant 'for' the player. I think green should mine his own gold before opening up to the heroes, at which point he should be easily strong enough to quickly capture or kill them with his creatures.

    That being said, you can quite easily make whatever changes to the map you like with a map editor, in which case you wouldn't have to wait. (I'd still rather give green more starting creatures than more traps). Placing a single tile of green treasure room right up against the gold should also fix the map straight away.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Korros Tor - Green keeper dying immediately?

    A simple fix such as giving Green two level four bile demons to start would be more than enough to prevent his death, but it doesn't fix the root problem of the water section being emptied too soon.

    I never really noticed how unco this map is. A random horny in the middle of nowhere with no signifier; a hero fortress with nothing of value inside of it; green keeper only accessible from one area.
    This map upsets me. Time to whip out the scalpel and make some cuts.


    I was only going to make small changes. Was. It's dead now. Something completely different is in it's place.
    http://www.mediafire.com/download/mz...Korros_Two.rar

    Mostly map changes. Changed the AI's to more aggressive settings. Included Hellhounds and Tentacles to the pool. Gave the player Armageddon for funsies; their choice if they want to use it or do it the normal way. Put gems in contestable spots but since I didn't remove the AI's, the player shouldn't have to fight much if at all. Overall the map -plays- the same; the AI's still don't know how to navigate locked doors so if the player doesn't knock them down, they can turtle as much as they want.



    I'm leaving for work right now so i'll get back to you in five hours, Mark.
    Last edited by Woudo; March 20th, 2016 at 16:20.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Korros Tor - Green keeper dying immediately?

    I'll take a look at your map later, I liked your other DD inspired map you sorta shared here.

    However, this is the map completely intact but fixed. Now 9 out of 10 times green will mine his own gold before opening up to the lake.

    Edit:
    Your map is corrupt Woudo: http://abload.de/img/corruptorv3bp6.png

    Edit2:
    No it's not, I did not extract all the files. Will play tomorrow.
    Last edited by YourMaster; March 20th, 2016 at 00:41.

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