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Thread: What's Cost Efficient?

  
  1. #1

    Default What's Cost Efficient?

    Hiya guys, i come here with a new question.

    What's better to do on a Gold only Map:
    Create imps till you got 10-15
    OR
    Train 5-7 imps to level 3?

    I'm waiting for the answers

  2. #2
    Imp C4st1gator's Avatar
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    Default Re: What's Cost Efficient?

    Well, assuming the Data on this page is correct,
    let's see how expensive it is to create an appropriate workforce.

    Summon 10 - 15 Imps.

    150+300+450+600+750+900+1050+1200+1350+1500=8250
    150+300+450+600+750+900+1050+1200+1350+1500+1650+1 800+1950+2100+2250=18000

    Summon 5 - 7 and train to level 3.

    150+300+450+600+750+5*980=7150
    2250+4900=7150
    150+300+450+600+750+900+1050+7*980=11060
    4200+6860=11060

    As you can see, summoning 7 imps and training them comes out slightly ahead of just summoning 10 in terms of gold spent. Just remember, that time to train hasn't been taken into account. It takes five to six minutes to train a level three imp.

    Since total summoning cost scales quadratically, while training scales in a linear fashion, training becomes more attractive, the more imps you summon.
    Another problem on gold-only maps unfortunate worker deaths. Between your sixth and seventh imps, replacing a dead imp is more expensive than training one to level three.
    Since imps have super incredible suicide skills, you may need to replace one eventually. In a defence situation, you can hold up to eight imps. Any more than that are at least somewhat likely to die, unless you decide to lock them in.

    Another factor is ease of replacement. A level one imp can be replaced in an instant, unlike a level three imp.

    So, if you fear complete loss of your workforce several times over, I would stop replacing them after the seventh.
    Training one imp costs you about one tile of gold. This is a good reference to check how much gold is left on the map.

    Once all the gold has been mined:
    If you have a workshop, you can try to stay afloat by selling traps and doors. At this stage, the game can reach stalemate, with the occasional player trying to assassinate your dungeon heart. Players in possession can pose an extraordinary threat to your imps, depending on the creature they chose to inhabit.
    At this stage, it is less important to have many imps, and more important to have somewhat decent creatures manning the workshop.
    The 1860 gold to get a troll to level 4 can be a worthwhile investment, before it even comes to this.
    Last edited by C4st1gator; April 17th, 2016 at 21:43. Reason: Typo
    Gold, creatures, spells, rooms, traps, imps. These are the things every Keeper is measured in.

  3. #3

    Default Re: What's Cost Efficient?

    It completely depends on the map, how much pressure there is. If there's no pressure you can complete the map with just the imps you start out with.

    Even if you know there's pressure, it still depends on the map, if there's just a little bit of gold your 10 imps can mine it all out before your 5 imps are trained to lvl 3. You can always say though, that on gold maps 10 imps are more efficient than 5 speed-imps as they are only 50% faster. The opposite is true on gem-maps, where if you have imps for all gem faces it pays to have them speedy.

    It also matters if you have a temple, as with a temple imps cost only 300 gold a piece without it you'll spend a small fortune on your 15 imps.

    Training imps is mostly useful if you have a map where you can't continue until your creatures are trained further and you have idle imps. Even then only when you can keep them alive.
    Last edited by YourMaster; April 17th, 2016 at 22:26.

  4. #4

    Default Re: What's Cost Efficient?

    actually you can make the imps cost to be always 150, on a gold map its not really worthed tho, since you would've to sacrifice the number of imps you've + 2, then on you can create 4 imps at the cost of 150, sacrifice them and then 8 then 16 then 32 and so on...

  5. #5

    Default Re: What's Cost Efficient?

    yes, but for every imp you pay 150 gold for, you have to sacrifice another one. So to get 100 imps it will cost you 30000 gold.

  6. #6

    Default Re: What's Cost Efficient?


  7. #7

    Default Re: What's Cost Efficient?

    If there are lightning traps on the map, you will loose your level 3 imps on them.

    Training is only useful if you have gems.
    And the amount of imps you need, depends on the amount of gem faces as a minimum.
    That's 3 imps for every gem face.
    If there is no gems on the map, or more than enough gems to pay for everything, usually training them is useless.

    I have to train them on most levels though, while protecting them level 3 imps against traps, because most often there is not enough gems for all the costs you make.
    Making them cost 150 only, when a temple is available, that would usually be the best way to proceed on every map.
    If you have a temple.

    You asked: What is best on a Gold only map? Don't train them.
    I don't understand why you give imp amounts, because that will depend on the map.

    You mostly will need more imps for reinforcing walls, than that you need for mining gold without gems.
    As little as possible imps, until you can get a temple.
    Hitting them makes them work faster, but that wears off rather quickly.

  8. #8

    Default Re: What's Cost Efficient?

    Mining gems works better if your imp has speed. If you only have access to one face of the gem block you will have to train your imps.

    Also to mine a gem block you need to have a constant flow of imps so that there are always imps mining it. The farther the block the less time imps will do mining and more time travelling. A speedy imp is quintessential in such circumstances.

    Also in vanilla DK i don't recommend going to level 10 because creature abilities have shorter durations. I say "creature get lazy at level 10" I guess is really a bug? But this has been fixed in KeeperFX or I haven't noticed it at all. So I totally recommend having at least 1 level 10 imp. Simply take 1 imp at the beginning of the game and let it stay there whole game. A level 10 imp can survive lightning traps! And if he is low on health simply lock him in a room and he won't teleport outside and stay there and toke until he is healed. Or you can just heal him.

  9. #9

    Default Re: What's Cost Efficient?

    That was a major bug in the original game yes, where creature spells use the 'level' of the creature as power-level of the spell. So a lvl1 Dragon uses the weakest heal spell, and the lvl5 dragon uses the heal spell charged to lvl5. However, the spells only had 9 levels so when the creature was lvl 10 the spells had to take the power of the next spell in the list.
    There were similar problems with the stats, stats grow on every level up, and while some growths meant they would go above 255, the game could not handle values above that number. So in some cases the values looped back to 0 (which for example made sure a high level reaper could hardly hit anything) and other stats stopped at 255 which meant all units ended up doing no more damage then the Orc.

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