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Thread: GOOD/EVIL creature balancing for Good Keeper plays or in general

  
  1. #21

    Default Re: GOOD/EVIL creature balancing for Good Keeper plays or in general

    Yeah, Monks and Witches are very powerful. A single Witch can take out a whole army of Warlocks no problem and Monks are killer against low level creatures and strong in general.

    One thing about the thieves though, raising them up into knights takes forever, but if you have 2 'increase level' specials on the map this suddenly changes.

  2. #22

    Default Re: GOOD/EVIL creature balancing for Good Keeper plays or in general

    I want to balance them without reducing their unique flavour and spells and by changing as few stats as possible. Some hero units are too powerful while others are too weak or not well designed to be used for a Keeper gameplay.

    Two obvious culprits are Avatar and Knight

    Avatar is about x2 stronger than Horny plus can cast as many spells as a wizard, never gets angry and costs about same as a Vampire. Sure he's the ultimate good hero but when you can summon him via sacrifices is not so cool when a Player gets access to him.

    To compensate I made him weaker, less hp, and gave him a higher wage.


    Similarly Knight has more hp than a Dragon plus gets access to Rebound spell and has 80 offence. That's not cool at all. I mean maybe is cool when you meet him as an enemy but when you're fighting against a Player who gets access to a bunch of Knights is not as fun. Also Knights spawn naturally if you have 36 Training room tiles making him potentially available early game.

    To compensate I made him weaker than a dragon 700 hp and reduced his power to 60 making him closer to an Orc with Dragon tanking potential.

    Samurai is also an obvious culprit same stats as dark mistress but +20 more damage and melee preference making him hit harder in battle. Dark mistress will mostly use drain and lightning while Samurai uses everything. 1 v 1 Samurai wins . To compensate I made him weaker and easier to kill but kept his damage the same.

    Giant is actually balanced because he has 650 hp and 100 damage while Bile Demon has 80 damage and 1200 hp + damaging spells.


    Next i will make an excel list of potential damage for good/evil and potential hp see if the scale favour one side or another more.

  3. #23

    Default Re: GOOD/EVIL creature balancing for Good Keeper plays or in general

    Monks are a bit harder to hit now but otherwise same as before.

    Witches (aka Priestess) has not been changed.

  4. #24

    Default Re: GOOD/EVIL creature balancing for Good Keeper plays or in general

    Instead of dicking around with old units, just make new ones entirely.

  5. #25

    Default Re: GOOD/EVIL creature balancing for Good Keeper plays or in general

    Can you do that? I thought you can't add creatures. You mean like completely redesign the hero units?

  6. #26
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    Default Re: GOOD/EVIL creature balancing for Good Keeper plays or in general

    Right now, you can't, unless you replace one that is already in the game.

  7. #27

    Default Re: GOOD/EVIL creature balancing for Good Keeper plays or in general

    Well, what's a completely new unit,.... if you want a balanced game you could make your own 'campaign', with completely different creatures in everything except how they look. You can have powerful fire-breathing flies and miniature giants that can cast lightning with stats you decide completely by yourself. In this campaign you put some 'skirmish' maps which you modify to allow heroes to come from portals for some players and you almost have your dream game. And you could have the regular game intact so you could still play custom maps of people the way they were meant to be played.

    Making new creatures with new looks is technically possible, but requires an awful lot of work and talent so it might as well not be. If you do, you'd technically be limited to the same number of creatures that are in the game now, but Mefisto could change that. He hasn't yet because nobody ever made a new creature for the game anyway, and most likely nobody ever will.

  8. #28

    Default Re: GOOD/EVIL creature balancing for Good Keeper plays or in general

    Hey guys more updates

    Thanks to YourMaster's good vs evil map I have managed to see good and evil in action and further optimize some of the creature settings.

    Knight reverted to vanilla stats + 50 dex + requires 25 Training & 25 Treasury to make him appear early
    He needs to be available early to compensate for weak early combat power of Good. He's the badass hero everyone needs.

    I'm also thinking Dragon may need a buff of dex to make him hit more often be more useful in combat.

    Giant buffed to 800 hp + requires 25 Training + 25 Hatchery to make him appear early
    He now hits just as hard and lives a tad bit longer making him more fair vs Bile Demon.

    Barbarian requires Barracks

    Fairy has been reverted to vanilla stats and is available early again to compensate for lack of secondary researcher/caster like Dragon for evil.


    So far I have tried early to mid game they seem pretty balanced and win rate is 50/50


    EDIT: I have modified the map adding Tunneller and Archer and making creatures spawn time 500 and dead creatures return to pool. For a truly equal battlefield creature pool must have same amount of creatures of a similar type . Well more or less.

    In General:
    3 Fly = 3 Fairy (yeah i know doesn't even compare)
    3 Dragon = 3 Knight
    3 Bile Demon = 3 Giant
    3 Bug = 3 Tunneller
    3 Spider = 3 Archer
    3 Dark Mistress = 3 Samurai
    3 Demonspawn = 3 Thief
    3 Troll = 3 Dwarf
    3 Orc = 3 Barbarian
    3 Hellhound = 3 Witch
    3 Tentacle = 3 Monk
    3 Warlock = 3 Wizard

    Dragon may need buffing and perhaps another creature perhaps tentacle or hellhound to make late game worthwhile for evil because Fly , Tentacle, Hellhound doesn't even compare with Fairy, Witch, Monk powerhouse. Tentacle does get Freeze at one point.
    Last edited by trollworkout; May 14th, 2016 at 22:36.

  9. #29

    Default Re: GOOD/EVIL creature balancing for Good Keeper plays or in general

    Quote Originally Posted by YourMaster View Post
    Well, what's a completely new unit,.... if you want a balanced game you could make your own 'campaign', with completely different creatures in everything except how they look. You can have powerful fire-breathing flies and miniature giants that can cast lightning with stats you decide completely by yourself. In this campaign you put some 'skirmish' maps which you modify to allow heroes to come from portals for some players and you almost have your dream game. And you could have the regular game intact so you could still play custom maps of people the way they were meant to be played.

    Making new creatures with new looks is technically possible, but requires an awful lot of work and talent so it might as well not be. If you do, you'd technically be limited to the same number of creatures that are in the game now, but Mefisto could change that. He hasn't yet because nobody ever made a new creature for the game anyway, and most likely nobody ever will.
    Yeah it won't be too easy. I prefer what I am doing now tweaking settings here and there making the game more even good or evil.

  10. #30

    Default Re: GOOD/EVIL creature balancing for Good Keeper plays or in general

    I have been testing good vs evil even more.

    No matter how much I nerf heroes, it can't compensate for deadweight evil creatures like bug, fly, hellhound, tentacle and even demonspawn. Even heroes like dwarf or tunneller do a better job than any of these creatures.

    I think a new approach is required.

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