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Thread: Changing the research order and value to make the game more fun

  
  1. #1

    Default Changing the research order and value to make the game more fun

    These would be regular research values but the order is different. You get a spell then a matching room for the spell (the opposite of vanilla DK1) also you get Bridge then Workshop then Guard Post. Order being reversed. This makes it so you can start building traps earlier.

    Sight
    Bridge Room
    Obey
    Workshop Room
    Call to Arms
    Guard Post Room
    Hold Audience
    Barracks Room
    Speed
    Prison Room
    Cave In - the idea is to get this damaging spell before lightning since lighting is pretty OP
    Torture Room

    The following are x2 longer research. This makes it so you get most of these mid - late game. Whoever gets to scavenger / temple can really do some damage. Plus heal and conceal + possess to explore enemy tunnels while invisible. Also having graveyard this late means fewer vampires.

    Heal
    Temple Room
    Conceal
    Graveyard Room
    Protect
    Scavenger Room

    And finally x10 longer research. This makes it so you get these spells only late game if ever. Destroy Walls is pretty broken and you will barely get that far.

    Disease
    Chicken
    Lightning - problem with lighting is that is instant damage that you can't avoid. this makes it really OP . you can install kill most level 1 imps anywhere on the map which is why should not be available so early in the game
    Armageddon
    Destroy Walls


    With this your research room will be very valuable all the way to late game slowly researching more and more powerful rooms and spells.


    What do you think?


    EDIT: On second thought I think swapping Concela with Cave-In would make more sense making Conceal available earlier for normal research time and Cave-In x2 longer research before Graveyard.


    EDIT2: After further playtesting I conclude this does not make the game more fun but rather makes the game last longer. If longer game = more fun for you then by all means go ahead and do this :3
    Last edited by trollworkout; May 18th, 2016 at 18:10.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Changing the research order and value to make the game more fun

    I think it would be no fun at all when I play a map that requires me to destroy a wall to get to the opponent and I have to wait for hours to get the spell researched.
    I think it would also be no fun at all to have the computer players keep spending time and effort into researching the spell which they will never reach instead of training.

  3. #3
    Elite Dragon Mothrayas's Avatar
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    Default Re: Changing the research order and value to make the game more fun

    I note that the changed order here heavily prioritizes getting defensive spells and rooms earlier, and puts all offensive spells and rooms at the end of the list. The end result is that the average game will take much longer, as any attempt at rushing is made completely unviable. Even Speed Up is given extremely late so it can't be used for early quick progression.

    The result of such a heavy emphasis on defense is that multiplayer games would take an extremely long time, which makes games far more boring and makes it harder for people to invest time into playing such games. It would completely kill any online multiplayer community if online multiplayer were a thing. DK1 is actually already too defensively stacked as is, no need to make it even worse. In fact, if KeeperFX ever got online multiplayer up, I would advocate for a multiplayer-based patch to increase rushing potential and overall game speed, not decrease it.

    By the way, research time for the final tier of spells means absolutely nothing as long as you have a Temple and Flies are available.

    The Awakening


  4. #4

    Default Re: Changing the research order and value to make the game more fun

    Quote Originally Posted by Mothrayas View Post
    By the way, research time for the final tier of spells means absolutely nothing as long as you have a Temple and Flies are available.
    Most maps don't have temples AND flies available. On the single player maps that have it gives the human a massive advantage because the CP does not sacrifice the flies for spells.

  5. #5
    Elite Dragon Mothrayas's Avatar
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    Default Re: Changing the research order and value to make the game more fun

    Quote Originally Posted by YourMaster View Post
    Most maps don't have temples AND flies available. On the single player maps that have it gives the human a massive advantage because the CP does not sacrifice the flies for spells.
    Multiplayer maps do by default. You may have noticed my post was mostly focused on that.

    The Awakening


  6. #6

    Default Re: Changing the research order and value to make the game more fun

    Those are some good points about flies and temple meaning you can still rush research like vanilla except that if you go researching then it should be much more expensive.

    The research order does force the player to go turtle mode and get defensive spells and traps earlier indeed making the game longer. This will make it so you depend less on spells and more on creature / dungeon management and traps.


    Another idea is to keep research same but make research cost gold. I am not sure if is possible.
    And a third option is to keep research same but make offensive spells much more expensive preventing players from spamming them. I may play with this option as well. Same research speed but more expensive spells.

  7. #7
    Elite Dragon Mothrayas's Avatar
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    Default Re: Changing the research order and value to make the game more fun

    Quote Originally Posted by trollworkout View Post
    The research order does force the player to go turtle mode and get defensive spells and traps earlier indeed making the game longer. This will make it so you depend less on spells and more on creature / dungeon management and traps.
    No, it makes it so the game lasts longer. That is all. The effect on trap management and especially creature management is minimal at best.

    The Awakening


  8. #8

    Default Re: Changing the research order and value to make the game more fun

    After further playtesting you are indeed correct. It makes the game drag on and on. Reverted to default values.

    The only possible useful change is to make Lighting spell more costly however this can be done via script .


    The title of this thread should be "Changing spell order and research time to make the game last longer" not more fun

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