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Thread: Lost

  1. #1

    Default Lost

    QUICK_OBJECTIVE(1,"After the last battle we had to flee in an hurry and it seems this realm will be your next conquest.",PLAYER0)
    Features :
    -scripted imp mechanic (you can't make imp but they are generated each 100 game turns until you have 8 of them).
    -little story while you explore.
    -strong rival keeper that should be hard enough to defeat.
    -rival keeper has almosft infinite gold, do not try to frameskip in hope he run out of gold it will not happen.
    -final fight after defeating the rival keeper.

    I have to say, I hardly won with my own modificitations (creatures, spells, rules, etc...),
    I have no idea if this map is possible with original dungeon keeper (it might be easier or harder,this is important you know that before you try the map if you plan to try it!)

    I did not provide a screen because I do not want spoil the level- even know it can be obvious where the rival is located when you first load it but still.

    Please, tell me if I can do something to make this level better, and any feedbacks is welcome.
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Last edited by watler253; August 5th, 2016 at 10:35.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Lost

    I've played it, and sorry, but I've got to say it's not a fun map. You've got unlimited gold through the script, unlimited imps through the scripts and nothing else going on. The occasional hero attack does not matter when you've got 40 lvl 10 dark mistresses.
    The blue keeper is of course much too strong fight in any normal way, so you've got to either take it really slow and careful or use cheap tactics. I decided to use my limitless gold and my disease spell to take him down, but I reached both the creature limit and the thing limit so eventually I decided to just quit the map.

    When you have so much gold and enough room, even building a dungeon is no fun. You can just build all rooms really really big, no strategy involved.

    I've also noticed you've 'forced creatures' by using the old CREATURE_AVAILABLE command together with Level_version(1).

  3. #3

    Default Re: Lost

    No need to apologize for my map not being fun, I have to improve and this kind of feedback is the best I can get, it means I have to think a way to bring fun on it.

    Did you find the secret in the level ? (You should have if you dig for the gems)

    Should I change the entire pool creature for the player ?

    About the unlimited gold, what do you think is best, remove gems and keep the script or remove the script and keep gems? I think the issue is the map have both.
    The gold income you receive should be enough to train or scavenge creatures but not enough to pay them.
    (but since I made the script with my own modifications in head, things can go wrong with original settings, it is a mistake somehow).

    For Imps, the purpose is limit both keepers with 8 imps so the map could handle more creatures, but it doesnt seems to be a good idea afterall since you can exploit it with imprisoning his 8 imps so you are free to claim his entire dungeon without any trouble.

    The blue keeper is of course much too strong fight in any normal way, so you've got to either take it really slow and careful or use cheap tactics.
    At least he is strong, did you feel it was more unfair than hard?

    I reached both the creature limit and the thing limit.
    This bother me, I try to be careful with these limits, the thing is that the player can make room as big as he want/can, the only way I can control that is with script but, it would take too much IF condition and I do not want limit the player.

    When I playtest I have the habit to not make huge room with the thing limit in head. That said, I could reduce the size of blue dungeon.

    I've also noticed you've 'forced creatures' by using the old CREATURE_AVAILABLE command together with Level_version(1).
    Yes, it is intended, I like this feature.
    Last edited by watler253; August 7th, 2016 at 07:24.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Lost

    You get incredible amounts of gold, I had millions in the bank. And it was not me that caused reaching the level limits, the blue keeper did that. You kept spawning parties to attack him, and he had a prison and graveyard so he just grew until he reached the level limits.

    I don't know if I found your secret, before I realized I would get infinite gold I did dig towards the gems to find the yellow keeper there with walls. I did not find out how to enter it, but eventually blue killed yellow so I could break in and take that dungeon. I quickly stopped mining gems though, no need.

    If you want to make sure both people have 8 imps, you can use the 'IF_CONTROLS' together with the 'KILL_CREATURE' command to prevent keeping imps captured.

    I didn't consider the blue keeper to be unfair, just ridiculous. He started out with 120 lvl 10 creatures, I managed to get about 70 creatures so he got 255-70 in the end, and those were all vampires, reapers, samurai and some skeletons and witches thrown in for good measure. There's just nothing that can fight that directly, so you'll end up having to pick a very slow solution to do so indirectly. Changing the pool won't help,... now you just got mistresses which are really powerful already, other creatures won't help you out here.

    You don't need to give the enemy keeper massive amounts of powerful creatures to make a map difficult. You could just as well just make the player weak and the rival a bit stronger, this way you give the player room to grow and it won't bug out the game. If you want an example, why don't you try one of the maps I made; 'Thug of War' and 'Frozen Legion' are both quite difficult. 'Desperation' is against keepers, not so difficult, but you can easily see how to increase the difficulty there.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2012

    Default Re: Lost

    Having tried to look at this level, it is outright impossible to play, barring access to boulder traps.
    or that is the question

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