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Thread: New Member of the KK Community.

  
  1. #11
    Mapmaker impboy4's Avatar
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    Default Re: New Member of the KK Community.

    If it feels sluggish; the game came with a game speed slider in the control settings.

  2. #12

    Default Re: New Member of the KK Community.

    You can speed it up sure,... but the game seems designed to feel sluggish. Compare the Wizard in DK1 to DK2. In the former it has 10 spells and it fires all of them twice before you can blink an eye. In DK2 it basically just has fireball and it does a complex yoga exercise before the fireball is released.

    Also look at room building,... in DK2 you can build a room faster than in DK1, but it feels completely different. In DK2 you have to draw an entire room, and then after you've done so, with a small delay, it grows from one side to the other with an animation. In DK1 you have to build each room, but you stomp them down. As you click your mouse the room tile is placed immediately with a loud bang. You as the player are actually building the room, and if you want to do that quickly, you have to move quickly. It's a much more active process.

    Just two of many examples.
    Last edited by YourMaster; December 15th, 2016 at 16:11.

  3. #13
    Your Majesty Hapuga's Avatar
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    Default Re: New Member of the KK Community.

    DK2 feels much more like a dungeon sim than DK1. DK1 is a great RTS where you have to think fast and be aggressive. DK2 is where you can make a cup of tea and torture your enemies. Slowly. In style. DK1 has a better gameplay aspect, DK2 has a better sim aspect. That's all.
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  4. #14

    Default Re: New Member of the KK Community.

    Seriously though - even though I truly believe that DK1 is the better game even from an objective standard - I can fully understand there are people that prefer the sequel. Personally what I think was its biggest advantage was that it had much more content, like pet dungeon and skirmish maps. DK1 just had the single campaign where half of the levels were tutorial and even the rest was quite easy. The -1player levels before DD were completely useless because rival keepers were piss poor. Of course, with KeeperFX and DK2 v1.7 and user content this situation has changed.

    Most importantly though, both games have plenty of flawed mechanics (DK2 a bit more) but atmosphere is key. And both games have a very different atmosphere, which is why is comes down to personal preference. You can't say DK1 is a RTS where you have to think fast and be aggressive - the fast majority of maps, official or custom you can just take all the time in the world and train your creatures. DK1 also has no direct control over units to feel anything like a RTS. DK2 has a bit more to do within your dungeon though, like placing traps or using the combat pit. And that atmosphere indeed is meant to be more relaxed(sluggish?) in DK2, and more hectic(chaotic?) in DK1.

  5. #15
    Your Majesty Hapuga's Avatar
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    Default Re: New Member of the KK Community.

    RTS stands for real time strategy. It can be either with direct or indirect unit control. I mentioned that it is a great RTS because that's what it is. It has much less focus on building the dungeon (as in a builder sim) and more focused on rekking the enemy. While you could say the same about the second game, I find it much more sim'y. I simply enjoy building as big of a dungeon as possible, without rushing to defeat the enemy. Personal preference.
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  6. #16

    Default Re: New Member of the KK Community.

    I know what you said, and I'm not attacking you. I'm just saying that it's not the 'sim' part that is mechanically different, but the atmosphere. And because you prefer that atmosphere and you prefer to build large dungeons in that atmosphere, you enjoy the second game more. But I think most people that prefer DK1 also prefer slowly building the dungeon.
    And simultaneously, there are also people who like DK2 to be a fast paced strategy game. Hell, WftO was made by a DK2 fan who wanted fast paced multiplayer games or rush-style single player levels in the unofficial sequel. Simply put, you may prefer DK2, but saying most DK1 players focus more on 'rekking the enemy' than on building is incorrect.

    And I know what the letters RTS stand for. I also know that most genres stand for a type of game, not by a strict definition. A JRPG can come from other places than Japan for example.
    Dungeon Keeper 1 and 2 often get the 'RTS' moniker because they don't really fit in any genre. With more 'clones' coming out 'dungeon management game' is starting to become a bit of a genre by itself. You have to admit, it plays nothing like other RTS games, and it hardly fits the term. Almost all games are 'real time', so that point is moot. And neither DK1 nor DK2 have any significant strategy aspect to them. (Not any more than say a FPS game). Like you said, people play them mostly for the dungeon building/management. It's no surprise that people who like DK more often will say Theme Hospital is another favorite, more so than Command and Conquer. I mention direct unit control, because that is one of the main differences between god games/simulations and RTS games. A starcraft fan would not enjoy his units going off on their own in his games.

  7. #17
    Your Majesty Hapuga's Avatar
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    Default Re: New Member of the KK Community.

    DK is an RTS with an indirect unit control. Wordy, but most accurate. Have you ever played Majesty or Majesty 2? They are exactly same genre. B&W. Same genre. Dwarf Fortress. They differ in amount of base building and direct involvement, but they all have the same root. I guess Majesty is the closest to DK.
    http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/6659/c2warlocki.gif

  8. #18

    Default Re: New Member of the KK Community.

    If you want to call it a RTS you can. I have not played majesty, but a quick search tells me this is also a simulation like game. By your definition you've got to admit that 'RTS' becomes a very, very broad and large genre. So large that the term becomes almost meaningless, as it no longer tells me that if I like one good game in the genre, I probably also like another game in this genre. Or even if I do like multiple of the sub-genres, that when I'm in the mood of one I'm not in the mood of another.

    Personally I think defining game genres by their mechanics is to limiting, it should appeal more to the mindset of playing it. Like movies - you have 'comedies' or 'horror' which tells you more about the film than 'Knife stabbing movie' that would both fit 'Scare movie' and 'Scream'.
    Terms and definitions be damned - most people play Starcraft 2 and the like for the fast paced strategic multiplayer/skirmish games, most people play either dungeon keeper for the slow paced management sim aspects.

    Edit:
    I have played Dwarf Fortress by the way, and wikipedia doesn't even list it as an RTS. And the Majesty wiki also describes itself as a hybrid RTS/SIM game. So at the very least, when these and the DK games are RTS games, they are edge/fringe cases, not fitting the standard template of the genre.
    Last edited by YourMaster; December 16th, 2016 at 01:01.

  9. #19
    Your Majesty Hapuga's Avatar
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    Default Re: New Member of the KK Community.

    I agree, it is impossible to fit such a game in one genre. It is more of a generic family than a specific type. It is real time. It has strategy elements. Thus, my monkey brain tells me that it is a real time strategy.
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  10. #20

    Default Re: New Member of the KK Community.

    DK is first/third person Dungeon Crawler Real Time God Sim RPG, duh.

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