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Thread: Why DK1 is better than DK2

  
  1. #31

    Default Re: Why DK1 is better than DK2

    Quote Originally Posted by Gold Knight View Post
    Strangely enough, when I try it now, it does not trigger unless I mine the gold. But when I tested it again while making my previous post, it definitely occurred as soon as I entered the map, as it had originally done so the previous times I played it. Perhaps there is some kind of memory address inconsistency with the TOTAL_GOLD_MINED variable, or it might not reset properly after completing another map. Either way, it's no longer happening for now. If it does happen again, I'll post a recording of it.
    Could very well be the case,... but movies aren't helpful here. They won't do anything else than confirming you speak the truth. Better yet, before it happens edit your command link to save the package, so that when it happens you save the game and then can report it with the save, the log file and the package file.

  2. #32
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    Default Re: Why DK1 is better than DK2

    Quote Originally Posted by YourMaster View Post
    Could very well be the case,... but movies aren't helpful here. They won't do anything else than confirming you speak the truth. Better yet, before it happens edit your command link to save the package, so that when it happens you save the game and then can report it with the save, the log file and the package file.
    Oh, thanks for the info. There have been more than several occasions where I've seemingly beaten a map and the victory condition has never triggered, or certain action points never functioned. I always thought it was some oversight in the map script. Maybe this packet feature can help solve those mysteries.

    With Thug of War, I actually found it significantly easier without walling myself in. There are a few issues, such as being able to block off various hero parties when they pass through water areas using Guard Posts (this room, along with the Temple is arguably just as game-breaking as Prison/Torture). I was easily able to trap the Avatar and snipe all his friends before taking him down. I also didn't think it made sense that there was just a single Lightning and Word of Power trap - barely enough to make any difference at all (I expected the traps to become available).

  3. #33

    Default Re: Why DK1 is better than DK2

    Of course, it's up to the mapmaker that the player will play the map more or less as intended, and you can't blame the player if for example he walls in until he is powerful enough to take out everything, but usually the map is most fun when played as intended. On both this map and the other one the intend was for the player to not be able to wall himself in, and as you can expect a player to try to do so when starting out if possible, it being possible before was an oversight that I have fixed.
    And to be fair, I also did not consider players abusing the guard posts on the small puddles - I just made sure there would always be an open path towards the dungeon - but this is something I won't fix. I like people to be able to use guardposts for actual guarding, and I like there to be water. Besides, it takes active management to lock these units in at the right time, so I leave it to the player to decide if he wants to use this exploit or not.
    Only a single WoP or Lightning trap is on purpose, the final wave is mostly spell casters which are especially vulnerable to traps.

  4. #34
    Fly Gold Knight's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why DK1 is better than DK2

    Quote Originally Posted by YourMaster View Post
    I also did not consider players abusing the guard posts on the small puddles - I just made sure there would always be an open path towards the dungeon - but this is something I won't fix. I like people to be able to use guardposts for actual guarding, and I like there to be water. Besides, it takes active management to lock these units in at the right time, so I leave it to the player to decide if he wants to use this exploit or not.
    Actually, most of the heroes simply walked straight in. Their pathfinding mostly takes them around the edge, but they usually end up cutting a bit of the corner and getting stuck without much influence. I never even had to do anything about managing the water puddles in the bottom left areas of the map.

    Quote Originally Posted by YourMaster View Post
    Only a single WoP or Lightning trap is on purpose, the final wave is mostly spell casters which are especially vulnerable to traps.
    I guess so. It just feels kind of redundant seeing as the player gains access to all spells, Mistresses and Horned Reapers.

  5. #35

    Default Re: Why DK1 is better than DK2

    The only reason I prefer dungeon keeper 1 from dungeon keeper 2 is because the AI is much smarter and the way your creatures handle combat is more realistic. Sure, most of the creatures are not humanoid in dungeon keeper 1 like they are in dungeon keeper 2.

    The AI is not as smart in dungeon keeper 2 Especially with enemy Keepers, and for some reason in later versions of the game the enemy keeper AI is broken as the keepers do not drop creatures to defend themselves. In dungeon keeper 1 The graphics are sprites whereas in dungeon keeper 2 they are rendered as 3D Models.

  6. #36
    Mapmaker impboy4's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why DK1 is better than DK2

    Quote Originally Posted by darkkingkongman View Post
    The only reason I prefer dungeon keeper 1 from dungeon keeper 2 is because the AI is much smarter and the way your creatures handle combat is more realistic. Sure, most of the creatures are not humanoid in dungeon keeper 1 like they are in dungeon keeper 2.

    The AI is not as smart in dungeon keeper 2 Especially with enemy Keepers, and for some reason in later versions of the game the enemy keeper AI is broken as the keepers do not drop creatures to defend themselves. In dungeon keeper 1 The graphics are sprites whereas in dungeon keeper 2 they are rendered as 3D Models.
    however if you apply the GiM or find the Russian cracked 1.3 version; your smart ai will return and the fun continues.

  7. #37
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    Default Re: Why DK1 is better than DK2

    Quote Originally Posted by darkkingkongman View Post
    The only reason I prefer dungeon keeper 1 from dungeon keeper 2 is because the AI is much smarter and the way your creatures handle combat is more realistic. Sure, most of the creatures are not humanoid in dungeon keeper 1 like they are in dungeon keeper 2.

    The AI is not as smart in dungeon keeper 2 Especially with enemy Keepers, and for some reason in later versions of the game the enemy keeper AI is broken as the keepers do not drop creatures to defend themselves.
    It's actually pretty horrendous in DK1 as well. If I can take down a 40+ creature Keeper with a single Dragon, you know something's pretty damn broken. I could just about write a post as long as my original only on the AI. Of course, KeeperFX improves a few things, such as the AI dropping creatures when you attack their Dungeon Heart or rooms, but aside from that it's still incredibly limited.

    Quote Originally Posted by darkkingkongman View Post
    In dungeon keeper 1 The graphics are sprites whereas in dungeon keeper 2 they are rendered as 3D Models.
    As low as the sprite resolution is, I think the sprites of DK1 provide a higher level of fidelity than DK2's rather blocky models. DK1 used snapshots of high-poly models at different angles, which allowed for some pretty high detail and pre-rendered lighting / shadows. The main downsides to this is that the animations aren't as smooth, the number of viewing angles is fairly limited and, being in a 3D environment, the sprites can become quite pixelated when viewed up close. It's a pretty heavy trade-off, but I think the sprites allow for a much greater degree of disparity between creatures, with the "models" playing a much larger role in the creature design. Most of DK2's models seem to be almost the same (due to the incredibly low poly count), but with different textures applied. The humanoid saturation certainly doesn't help in this regard.





    Compare these two Knights from both games. The DK1 version definitely feels a lot more detailed. I know this is a pretty subjective matter, but I just feel like DK2's models aren't of high enough quality to well and truly beat DK1's sprites.

  8. #38

    Default Re: Why DK1 is better than DK2

    DK2 is the ultimate in What Could Have Been. Had a developer that wanted to put love and work into the game rather than bleed it dry for cash like a level 10 vampire got it's hands on it, we would be talking something very different.

    In DK1, as OP rightly points out, you can feel like a real evil and powerful commander of the underworld. Mighty dragons, swarms of insects, the creepy tentacles, all get replaced in DK2 with...dudes and other dudes. No more demonic narrator. :/

  9. #39

    Default Re: Why DK1 is better than DK2

    I agree with most of from the original post. Some of them are exactly my thoughts.

    I have played DK2 only for one time - and I think this will not change. On the opposite I played DK1 countless times.

    DK2 is just a joke. A game that just annoys me. The constant nagging about some creature being unhappy because of reason X. Yeah well, it is nice to have recorded so much voice files but was it really necessary for that? The short text message in DK1 was enough information when a creature was annoyed. Also creatures are much easier to annoy in DK2 if I remember.

    For me game aesthethics are also very important. Therefore, DK2 is just crap. DK1 looks authentic, like a dungeon from one of these RPGs from the beginning of the 90ties, also the monsters.
    DK2 just feels more like the muppet show(I like the muppets but they are for sure not the first thing I would think of when having a game like this in mind). I recently watched a playthrough of it on Youtube, and it reminded me why the CD is collecting dust somewhere. I laughed at the silly noises of the monk, and other creatures. Oh yes, the creatures. I can´t remember one that I liked. The remaining ones are more like caricatures of the old ones and the new ones...uninteresting at best. Most of them I just find despicable.

    Also the graphics are really bad. The beginning of the new millenium was a time when 3D was mostly in it´s early an often pretty ugly state. And unfortunately DK2 is one of these games. Not as bad as Simon the Sorcerer 3, but close.

    And Horny...well, one of the biggest sins. What is the new Horny supposed to be? He looks more like some playboy guy like Hellboy. Not just the pure evil demon we used to love and/or hate.
    I still have the Horny figurine somewhere, I have to admit it looks cool, but for me it is a different reaper.

    I also don´t know anyone who liked DK2. DK1 yes, but not that. So let´s forget this game.

  10. #40
    Mapmaker impboy4's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why DK1 is better than DK2

    Quote Originally Posted by Noanechu View Post
    I also don´t know anyone who liked DK2.
    Well now you do know one...Me.

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