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Thread: Dungeons And Keepers 21-map campaign 2017

  1. #11

    Default Re: NEW CAMPAIGN Dungeons And Keepers 21-map campaign 2017

    While it's true that it is not possible to change the script of a map of a saved-game, what I meant was to click Continue in the main menu after the script is edited: you'll start the map again with new - edited script - sure you know that. I do not use the cheat menu so I do it that way
    Now are you sure you didn't mix up the original and updated version?
    The original had:
    		QUICK_OBJECTIVE(2,"Congratulations, don't forget the transfer creature special!",PLAYER0)
    Added this without testing because I thought it's correct. This did not work: as you said it's just BRIDGE. What was fatal however was the fact that the error caused the game to miss WIN_GAME. I quickly removed the error by removing the whole if available statement. The updated version does not have room_bridge, the original one has.
    Quickly checked win conditions in other maps and they seem fine.
    And you are right I find interesting how people play the maps and I am thankful for your feedback Did not want it to sound other way.
    Last edited by kix; February 20th, 2017 at 20:01.

  2. #12

    Default Re: NEW CAMPAIGN Dungeons And Keepers 21-map campaign 2017

    Oh, I just realized why you thought I thought you were stuck on the first level. The hints I posted are not (just) for you. It's a mini walkthrough. I know you had no problems beating the level
    But I don't know how other users are experienced. The maps stop being that much straightforward after the third level and on maps like Academy, Jitters or Ascension Day hints are pretty useful. However they are mostly also contained ingame.
    Last edited by kix; February 20th, 2017 at 19:50.

  3. #13

    Default Re: NEW CAMPAIGN Dungeons And Keepers 21-map campaign 2017

    You are right, I had the script files switched. The reason the victory condition did not work, is that the entire line is ignored with your script error, so the IF statement isn't there. And I found the beginning of lvl 2 quite difficult, I found out later that there was no need to try and save all those tortured creatures, but I did after several failed attempts so I did not want to redo that. Clicking continue does force me to redo the level. I've just now won the level, by clicking the 'win level' button in the cheat menu after I killed all 4 knights.

    My suggestion is to just save up all the fixes, like the highscore thing (unless they are blocking like this one) and update once in a while when you've got a whole lot of feedback. Also, i think it is necessary to go through all your maps just once more - just quickly load them up - and check the log file after each one. You'll get warned of script errors. I just checked the log after loading up lvl 3, and this one for example says you made a mistake with the heal spell.(Error: command_magic_available(line 41): Unknown magic, 'POWER_HEAL'). Where there's one error there's bound to be more.
    When making/testing your campaign the cheat menu is needed, it saves you so much time, especially because it allows you to jump to whatever level you want to go. Add the -Alex command line option to your shortcut to enable it. Use F10-F12 on the campaign selection menu to go to different levels, and use F12 while possessing a creature to bring up the most useful cheat menu in game.

    I enjoyed the second level, after the beginning it was indeed quite easy, but that's not a problem in lvl2 of a campaign. The reduced training was a fun gimmick. However:
    1) Are Monks supposed to train past lvl4?
    2) The reveal map special allows you to take your warlocks for free as they walk on unclaimed path. Intended?
    3) The reveal map special allows you to see where the final hero party is going to spawn, so I walled them in. I think it would be better to spawn that party somewhere you can't block.
    4) I did not mind 4 knights in this level at all, as they are indeed the final goal of this level, and pre-spawned you won't get the voice messages. An quick message/objective whenever you kill one would be nice, as it helps the player keep track, but it works without. The avatar on this level adds nothing I think, you could just as easy easily have replaced that with a small group of heroes freeing the avatar for special occasions. (I'll stop giving feedback about the knight/avatar use for future levels, since it's not really important either way and you've got all the info you need about this.)

    Edit: O, on lvl2 the transfer-special is hard to miss by the way. I guess it is technically possible to win the lvl without the bridge, but you have to go out of your way to do so. The player is unlikely to attempt the knight you can hardly reach without a bridge before the knight in the west dungeon since you get some vision there. Once you do, you'll get the reveal special and find the library to bridge into the east-knight and thus the special. Also, you need a bridge to get gems (which you don't need, the gold amount on the first to maps is very nicely balanced) so that's additional motivation for the library I took my lvl10 monk to the next lvl by the way, since I expect another difficult start and or training limitation.
    Last edited by YourMaster; February 21st, 2017 at 08:08.

  4. #14

    Default Re: NEW CAMPAIGN Dungeons And Keepers 21-map campaign 2017

    Hello, thanks for playing and to answer your questions:
    I will check the logs and start using the cheat menu and I'll update the .rar + rename the rar so it's clear what version it is. I always forget it's power_heal with power_heal_creature. Just mass replaced all power_heal, with power_heal_creature, it was often computer players who had this error.
    1) Will change.
    2) Yes
    3) I did realize that there is possibility of walling them out easily but I was undecided whether to keep it or not. I'll see.

    On the gameplay:
    The captured and tortured creatures are there for 2 reasons:
    -To confuse player into thinking he's supposed to save them when he actually has a boulder trap sorry
    -It's rare to hear the mentor speech when your creatures are being tortured. Purely 'aesthetic'.

    Also, I'll update the map so you can only have 1 tile of bridge at the time and add 1 more tile of lava around gems. This way transfer creature will be reachable by bridge, but gems and the hero fortress to the east won't.

  5. #15

    Default Re: NEW CAMPAIGN Dungeons And Keepers 21-map campaign 2017

    Perhaps it would be easier to make the bridge researchable once you've killed all knights. That way you'd still need the library and you won't get any help from the bridge beating the level.

  6. #16

    Default Re: NEW CAMPAIGN Dungeons And Keepers 21-map campaign 2017

    Quote Originally Posted by YourMaster View Post
    Perhaps it would be easier to make the bridge researchable once you've killed all knights. That way you'd still need the library and you won't get any help from the bridge beating the level.
    Even better. Attachment now updated, no more heal_creature errors. Will upload updated lvl 2 and hiscores fix later.

  7. #17

    Default Re: NEW CAMPAIGN Dungeons And Keepers 21-map campaign 2017

    Played the third level, another good and interesting map. So far so good.

    You say in this lvl I would need to fight keepers in possession, but I do not see why. I converted so many heroes(I captured everything) and saved my increase level specials until last, so the 100 insects of the enemy keeper just melted away. Of course, when I breached the wall I first was attacked by his lvl 10 flies so I also had a set of lvl10 ghosts. But I could have done without that, as against an avatar, knight, reaper and a set of lvl 10 witches and fairies no amount of insects can become a problem. I simply bridged in and cast CTA onto their heart.
    The level worked fine, although the hint about getting a hero with rebound is unneeded - in a level without a portal everybody is going to use the prison and torture room, and you can't avoid the heroes with rebound.
    1) I would not make the 'You can make bridges now' an 'objective' message but an 'information' message instead.
    2) I would make the initial objective more to the point: "Capture the hero dungeon to use for yourself, and build up an army to face your rivals". And when you've captured all rooms, or killed most heroes, or have the destroy walls spell replace the objective with one that states something like "Kill the keepers in the south'.

  8. #18

    Default Re: NEW CAMPAIGN Dungeons And Keepers 21-map campaign 2017

    Good job, will probably remake the objectives.

    Updated the archive based on first 5 levels logs, will continue doing so tomorrow.Changes:
    -fixed some power_heal spells,1st lvl if_available
    -added much more lava effects
    -2nd level slightly changed
    -3rd level does not require breaking the lair to get the needed destroy walls
    -hiscores changed. So you probably have to win skip some levels to continue campaign

  9. #19

    Default Re: NEW CAMPAIGN Dungeons And Keepers 21-map campaign 2017

    Ok, no problem.
    You don't need to 'win skip'. From the land view you can simply use F11 to go to the next level. I ended with 3, so I can start fresh with 4 if it gives me trouble.

    I'm halfway through lvl4, I just killed the first Avatar attacking me. It's a long level, time for a little break to continue tomorrow. I'd say the start is a bit too difficult, I managed - not on my first attempt mind you - but I bet many people will get stuck here. You'll be drawn into the destroyed dungeon to the west to at least have some lair for your creatures, trying to push on before you're broke which will cause at least to mid-level knights to come and destroy you. There's nothing telling/hinting the player that going north-east first to get gold there and train up your first 3 to 4 creatures before doing so. At the very least, start the player out with some more gold and allow him to research sight a bit sooner to be able to explore. Possibly straight up tell the player to train up before venturing inside the blue dungeon.
    And a small hint, when they bonus-level-time has run out, set it to '0' to remove the countdown timer from the screen.
    EDIT2: Finished lvl4, straightforward enough when the parties stopped coming. I enjoyed it again but the difficulty can be toned down a bit I feel. I was lucky that the parties from the center could no reach me and I could kill them late in the game when I had the graveyard. Like I said, the player has no way to know which bits are save and which ones are dangerous, so progress is slow, which makes the hero parties come a bit to fast. I think increasing the time between the parties a bit would help here, plus making the heroes drop some gold would also make the map a bit more relaxing. I had to hand pay most of my creatures all the time.

    Onward to lvl 5, seems nice. Died straight away the first time because I dug into a library like you told me, it was empty but it spawned three high level wizards before I had my second creature. On my second attempt the initial party from the north did not dig towards me because the tunneler died in lava so I don't have the corpses for my graveyard. I think this requires some tweaking.
    Last edited by YourMaster; February 22nd, 2017 at 12:19.

  10. #20

    Default Re: NEW CAMPAIGN Dungeons And Keepers 21-map campaign 2017

    Updated the the archive:
    -very minor lvl design changes in Tomb Raid
    -very minor lvl design changes in Exorcism
    -added one quick info to Exorcism (warning about empty libraries "traps")
    -changed quick info in Bugsquashers
    -very minor lvl design changes in Trolls Stroll
    -very minor script change in Trolls Stroll
    -removed start gold piles in Salvager to stop initial gold hand feeding

    Just replayed Tomb Raid level and to be honest I found the difficulty fair. When I went broke I noticed just a few tiles north to my dungeon there's gold only guarded by 2 lvl 4 archers then a few of mountain dwarves. Nothing my horned reaper couldn't take on. There is sight of evil spell between yours and blue dungeon and even if I didn't notice it: thanks to the unclaimed path around the west portal you can drop imp through all the blue dungeon to see what's in there.
    But thanks for the feedback, I updated the level design a little bit, removed one wandering lvl 4 knight. Also made the tunneler unable to drown in lava

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