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Thread: KeeperFX Imp idling

  
  1. #11

    Default Re: KeeperFX Imp idling

    So you're using the latest nightly, not my unofficial release? In either case, important to know so I know where to look for the problem. In the unofficial release I did up the focus on gems a bit, so if you're using the nightlies you might already see an improvement by updating to 0.4.6u.

    That said, I've loaded your save and can't find any issue. Yes, imps aren't mining because of the locked door, by either unlocking the door or dropping imps inside the area with the gems they will start mining. I frameskipped to see if they would keep doing so, and they did. They never stopped mining.
    So unfortunately, this save-game is no help, but if you come across your issue again, please share.

    A small hint for specifically this level: You now have your treasure room to the east so your imps have to walk around the rock to get to the treasure room. But you also have room for a walled 3x4 treasure room right next to the gems. (Above the lair where your vampire is now.) That's much quicker so you'll get more cash.

  2. #12

    Default Re: KeeperFX Imp idling

    Quote Originally Posted by YourMaster View Post
    So you're using the latest nightly, not my unofficial release? In either case, important to know so I know where to look for the problem. In the unofficial release I did up the focus on gems a bit, so if you're using the nightlies you might already see an improvement by updating to 0.4.6u.

    That said, I've loaded your save and can't find any issue. Yes, imps aren't mining because of the locked door, by either unlocking the door or dropping imps inside the area with the gems they will start mining. I frameskipped to see if they would keep doing so, and they did. They never stopped mining.
    So unfortunately, this save-game is no help, but if you come across your issue again, please share.

    A small hint for specifically this level: You now have your treasure room to the east so your imps have to walk around the rock to get to the treasure room. But you also have room for a walled 3x4 treasure room right next to the gems. (Above the lair where your vampire is now.) That's much quicker so you'll get more cash.
    Whoops, didn't see a page 2 so I edited my post instead of replying.


    I doubt going around a corner is going to add to much time to the income, besides if you're talking about the room I think you are that's for the Vampires Scavenging room, you'll have to take that up with him, he's a level 10 transfer.

    I loaded up one of those saves again to check, also speeding up the game, and for a while the imps would go back to mining gems though with a noticeable delay between attempts, then eventually they stopped bothering again.

    Right now it seems to be a bit of a hit or miss for that problem, for me at least on that level, took ages redoing the whole thing so not going to be trying again or checking with different versions but I'll try keep my eye open for it in future.

  3. #13

    Default Re: KeeperFX Imp idling

    The tip about the gold is completely unrelated to the issue you're having. But what I meant was like this(made on your savegame, added the treasure room myself):


    And it does help significantly. I think what slows the mining down the most is that there are just 3 spots for mining, and that when one imp goes to the treasure room, a new imp wants to step in to mine. As you've dug out to the outside of the maps, idle imps decide to fortify far away and they prefer to mine gems over fortify walls so they decide to pick up the empty spot on the gems. Now no other imps will take this spot until this imp walks all the way back to your dungeon.
    So instead of trying to lock imps in with the gems, try to lock the outside of your dungeon.

    But indeed, simply keep your eyes open and when you run into it make a save and share it.
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  4. #14
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    Default Re: KeeperFX Imp idling

    I'm pretty convinced this is related to that pathing bug I keep randomly encountering. If it isn't my Imps being lazy, it's the AI getting ready to crash me on a time limit or both.

  5. #15

    Default Re: KeeperFX Imp idling

    Hi,

    I made some comments about this a while ago on that thread https://keeperklan.com/threads/5174-...al-0-4-6/page2. I was using KeeperFX unofficial 0.4.6u.
    No idea what is causing this, YourMaster hinted at optimizing digging process manually, but I never had to do such things before. Still, even if you manage better I find imps getting distracted from gems.
    I appreciate all the work that is being put into this and I am a fan of this game, if anything I am just trying to help.

  6. #16

    Default Re: KeeperFX Imp idling

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiegraf View Post
    if anything I am just trying to help.
    I did not take it any other way.
    Logically, when you gave me the feedback on the imp behavior when I released a new and unofficial version, I mentioned I did not do any changed there. And I compared my version to the released version and found no difference. Now as you see above, people have since reported the same issues with the 'official' branch.

    This does not mean there's no problem, just that if there's a change it is a change in the part I did not touch. Most likely I can't fix it, but I'm willing to try. What would be useful there would be for somebody to share a saved game, or even better a test map, where it clearly shows wrong behavior. That way I can try to make some changes and see if the behavior becomes better or worse.

  7. #17

    Default Re: KeeperFX Imp idling

    On your advice I made a test map, (https://app.box.com/s/dwuy5xo26l0lgn5uvdug8815n9hvvl1a) with minimal settings and I should say I did not test extensively. Indeed, after tagging the gems, imps collect gold to the treasure room, and then there is always at least one imp (you start with 3) that will go fortify walls. That is exactly what I have been complaining about. Anyway, your input on this would be appreciated.
    Last edited by Wiegraf; July 31st, 2017 at 16:47. Reason: wrong link

  8. #18

    Default Re: KeeperFX Imp idling

    I've tried your map, it's a good test map. In the latest release I see your behavior. Even when assigning imps to the gems and having other jobs available they will do some fortifying.
    Comparing 0.4.6U to the official stable branch, it's hard to tell the difference. So I did not introduce it in my unofficial build.

    Comparing it to an old version of KeeperFX (0.4.4.976) you can see that the original behavior was a lot different. When you highlight the gems they will start to mine and keep mining, they will even ignore claiming the path towards the gems. This behavior was probably changed because computer players might get into trouble if they just have their imps mining gems and never being able to build any rooms, but there are other solutions for that(like having the computer player simply assign imps to claiming tasks when needed).

    I'll have a look sometime to see if I can tweak this a bit, but I doubt I can do enough. At the very least I raised a bug-report, who knows if Mefisto ever comes back to the project.

    EDIT: I've been messing around with it, and I think I can get this to work. I'll share a prototype soon.

    What happens is this:
    - The game lists up to 64 tasks, based on priority.
    - Reinforcing is at the bottom of the list, but always fills out the list
    - At the start of the game, there's not much to do, so imps will start out reinforcing
    - When imps are mining gems, in order to not mine indefinitely, they will after a little while just pick up some new job and continue mining is put randomly on the list somewhere.

    What I think I can do is allow imps to mine indefinitely when there are no 'important' tasks.
    Last edited by YourMaster; August 1st, 2017 at 01:45.

  9. #19

    Default Re: KeeperFX Imp idling

    Well, here it is: KeeperFX 0.46uPrototype.zip. And here: Mirror
    Drop these files in your KeeperFX Unofficial folder(Make a backup first), play the game, be happy. Or not, but tell me why.

    I found the bug in the code, couldn't fix it directly but made a workaround. Simply put, if you assign imps to mine gems, they will stay mining for a long time. If there are important other tasks, they will eventually randomly decide to fuck it and just pick up a prisoner or dig out a room or something, but it should interfere with your game while it still makes sure that computers won't get stuck on maps with gems to mine.

    And while I was messing around with imp priorities I made several unrelated other changes, that should imps generally be smarter in which tasks to pick up. Please play the game, and let me know if you notice differences with imps and if you're happy with the behavior or not. I quickly tested around a bit, but haven't actually played many maps, so it isn't release worthy.
    Last edited by YourMaster; August 7th, 2017 at 13:15.

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