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Thread: [DK2] Map Editor Size Limit

  
  1. #21
    Awakening Game Master Metal Gear Rex's Avatar
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    Default Re: [DK2] Map Editor Size Limit

    Quote Originally Posted by Nocalora View Post
    Thats actually very interesting, seems to me one or more functions of the game just aren't capable of handling that many entities at once.
    But I was actually referencing the limit which enables or disables "incoming" new creatures to your dungeon, I know from experience that if you have a certain amount of NPCs on the map, there will be no more new creatures until the amount is reduced.
    It appears to be the very same limit. I added a portal and no creatures would come through. I even made a force generation command and it didn't work. Interestingly, when I tossed a Goblin away, the Forced Generated creature came up instantly, so it looks like it was saved in some sort of que.

    I sacked a couple more Goblins and got the portal to summon Goblins normally (since creatures that started on the map don't count against the portal limit) after I built a Lair that had like 450+ tiles. Interesting that the Goblins could still make beds without it crashing, yet the dungeon heart wouldn't spawn if I had too many creatures. Still though, once I hit that limit again, Goblins stopped coming. Didn't even get that little smoke effect that happens just before a creature spawns. I tried Create Imp spell, nope, couldn't generate a minion.
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  2. #22
    Imp Nocalora's Avatar
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    Default Re: [DK2] Map Editor Size Limit

    Well turns out the actual tiles are not stored in the map editor itself, and theres nothing I can possibly do map editor-wise exclusively, as the tiles most likely also have their properties stored within the same file they get loaded from, that would be "Terrain.kwd" Have to fiddle around with that a bit

  3. #23
    Mapmaker impboy4's Avatar
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    Default Re: [DK2] Map Editor Size Limit

    Well if adding new keepers is out of the question; maybe at least find out what makes up the AI both for heroes and keepers.

  4. #24
    Imp Nocalora's Avatar
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    Default Re: [DK2] Map Editor Size Limit

    @impboy4
    Thats way too time consuming, I'd just recommend people who want to study this games code more to learn some basic things about x86 Assembly and do it themselves, I wouldn't even know where to start to get an idea of how exactly the AI works, I just know simple things.

    @Rex: I have found a way to unhide these edge tiles and alot of other hidden tiles by modifying the Terrain.kwd file, they even show up in the config settings, but as soon you "touch" the actual edge walls on the map editor the game will crash (the edge walls which are automatically placed on the map), even when I have found a way to not touch them the game will crash when I want to save it.

    The only remaining option for me would be to find the code in the map editor which hides the edge walls in the config selection and "patch" the code out that hides it, gonna let you know when I get some actual progress done though.

  5. #25
    Mapmaker impboy4's Avatar
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    Default Re: [DK2] Map Editor Size Limit

    But what's more important; the editor or the game? As MGR repeated to everyone countless times; the game is very unstable and dirty. Improving the editor may be all well and good; but it doesn't change the fact that it won't fix the game itself.

  6. #26
    Imp Nocalora's Avatar
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    Default Re: [DK2] Map Editor Size Limit

    Right now im trying to do as much Magic as possible with my skills on the Map Editor but also on the Game itself, like trying to increase the creature limit to 64 and several other limits from 32 to 64 aswell.
    The game is a bit unstable, I give you that, but I've seen worse. Aslong you know what to avoid: like tabbing out in-game or clicking on the objectives button in-game in MP it usually goes fine for everyone involved.

  7. #27
    Awakening Game Master Metal Gear Rex's Avatar
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    Default Re: [DK2] Map Editor Size Limit

    Quote Originally Posted by Nocalora View Post
    @Rex: I have found a way to unhide these edge tiles and alot of other hidden tiles by modifying the Terrain.kwd file, they even show up in the config settings, but as soon you "touch" the actual edge walls on the map editor the game will crash (the edge walls which are automatically placed on the map), even when I have found a way to not touch them the game will crash when I want to save it.

    The only remaining option for me would be to find the code in the map editor which hides the edge walls in the config selection and "patch" the code out that hides it, gonna let you know when I get some actual progress done though.
    There's more hidden tiles? That's super interesting to me, what did you find?

    This is getting more into unknown territory for me but I can say what I do know.

    There's another crash that might be similar. For that patch I made, I tried to add new Traps / Doors by modifying the Hero Sentry Trap / Barricade / Steel Door. However, the only way to make those buildable ingame or allow me to place them down in the editor, I had to remove the "Good" label on them, which apparently causes an editor crash under certain circumstances. If I have the Good Player selected and try to select the Sentry Trap / Barricade / Steel Door, it will crash. So it's safe to assume that there's something in the editor trying to find something with the Good label and crashing when it can't. It's possible that changing the hidden flag on that terrain is also messing something up in a similar way, as it's also crashing when highlighting the terrain as you say. It might sound silly but I'm pretty sure the editor was rushed and I know for sure it's unfinished (as amazing as it sounds given its power and flexibility).

    I also know that it isn't necessarily obvious what kind of data is in each of those map files. For example, despite there being a Players.kld file, the information on various Keeper settings like what rooms, creatures, etc are available is actually stored in Variables, along with the actual Level Variables data. However, it seems certain data, such as Starting Gold, is not stored within Variables, despite it being tweakable within the same window even. It's possible that something exists in a different file, if you can't find the solution within the editor itself.

    I appreciate your effort looking into this.

    Quote Originally Posted by impboy4 View Post
    But what's more important; the editor or the game? As MGR repeated to everyone countless times; the game is very unstable and dirty. Improving the editor may be all well and good; but it doesn't change the fact that it won't fix the game itself.
    I have no idea what you're expecting to come out of this, outside of some sort of magical solution to just make DK2 better somehow, which is certainly much easier said than done especially when you're the one saying and not doing. 'Fixing DKII' is actually a huge task. Modifying core aspects of the game like that, especially one like DKII, would produce a lot of side bugs and whatnot that then need fixing. Look at KeeperFX's history for example.

    It's much easier and more realistic to just apply small fixes like this here and there to improve the overall experience, rather than taking on the colossal task of 'fixing DKII'. I believe it was Hapuga who said it would be better to just remake DKII from the ground up.
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  8. #28
    Imp Nocalora's Avatar
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    Default Re: [DK2] Map Editor Size Limit

    There's more hidden tiles? That's super interesting to me, what did you find?
    Nothing ground breaking to be honest, its just the tiles you know allready exist in-game.
    Heres a list of the things I have been able to un-hide in the kwd:

    *RST: Room Specific Tile : Used as tile in a room
    *OST: Object Specific Tile : Used as tile in an Object like a Dungeon Heart
    *S: Special: Is a tile, that has special properties

    RST: Lair
    OST: Portal
    RST: Hatchery
    OST: Dungeon Heart
    RST: Library
    RST: Training Room
    OST:Wooden Bridge
    RST:Guard Room
    RST:Workshop
    RST:Prison
    RST:Torture Chamber
    RST:Temple
    RST:Crypt
    RST: Graveyard
    RST: Casino
    RST: Combat Pit
    OST: Stone Bridge

    Heres the stuff thats a bit more interesting in my opinion:
    OST: Hero Gate [Final]
    OST: Hero Gate [Tile] [<Not Used>]
    S: Edge of Map
    OST: Claimed Vault
    OST: Hero Gate [FrontEnd]
    OST: Hero Lair
    OST: Hero Stone Bridge
    OST: Hero Portal

    Heres the Picture of them in the editor: http://i67.tinypic.com/2ewh94y.png
    *Note: They have all the Water icon because I didn't know what kind of icon to assign them, but its easily doable.

    TBH I would love myself some Hero stone bridges xD, although I got the results from the corrupt kwd file I modified, Its highly likely I can un-hide SOME of these tiles and even assign them an proper Icon without them crashing the editor, its just that only some of them have hte potential to crash the editor, a theory of mine is that the editor has some special properties assigned to edge of the map tiles and doesnt see them as normal tiles, so it thinks: WTF? WHAT IS THAT?, but that theory still has to get confirmed.
    Last edited by Nocalora; May 7th, 2017 at 20:23.

  9. #29
    Awakening Game Master Metal Gear Rex's Avatar
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    Default Re: [DK2] Map Editor Size Limit

    Quote Originally Posted by Nocalora View Post
    RST:Crypt
    This one interests me a fair bit. I've seen the name Crypt come up in the text strings, and I may have even heard a few mentor voice lines on it, but I always assumed it was an old name for the Graveyard. Seeing it as a separate room has me curious but it could just be an older Graveyard that they didn't want to change for whatever reason and instead created a new ID for the Graveyard remodel. Not gonna set my hopes too high there.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nocalora View Post
    Heres the stuff thats a bit more interesting in my opinion:
    OST: Hero Gate [Final]
    OST: Hero Gate [Tile] [<Not Used>]
    S: Edge of Map
    OST: Claimed Vault
    OST: Hero Gate [FrontEnd]
    OST: Hero Lair
    OST: Hero Stone Bridge
    OST: Hero Portal
    Aren't most of these normal tiles already accessible? There's a map called "FrontEnd3DLevel", this is actually the map for the main menu when you start up the game. I'm sure the tiles are just designed for that, similar to how the Hero Gate [Final] is designed. Hero Stone Bridge is actually just what you get when you select the Stone Bridge while you have Good Player selected, it's another room with the Good flag assigned to it, like the Hero Traps/Doors.

    The unused Hero Gate tile also has me curious, I wonder what that looks like ingame and if it's usable.
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  10. #30
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    Default Re: [DK2] Map Editor Size Limit

    Graphically the amount of Keepers is fixed. The keeper colors are fixed in to the textures. There is actually all the meshes for the different players individually. Although these are just simple quads.

    We also have hax for the editor:
    https://github.com/tonihele/OpenKeeper/issues/272

    And also a tool to see any map stuff rendered, no matter if it is really used in-game. Though, results may vary.

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