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Thread: Party leadership

  
  1. #1
    Dungeon Keeper Duke Ragereaver's Avatar
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    Default Party leadership

    I'm wondering on what grounds or system a leader of a party is chosen. Because if you want to make the party to do a specific action you have to set the parameter the same for all members of the party, so perhaps it would save some work if you have some knowlegde of how it would work because you already know who the party leader is going to be. Or perhaps I'm just more curious than needed.

    According to the script manual the selection is based on their creature type and their experience level. That would lead to the assumption the game values some creatures more than other or that the highest level-ed creature automaticly receives leadership.

    Generally this is true, but this issen't always the case. For example, I've created the following party (one of my favorites) and the wizard always seem to take the lead, even though he's tied with the barbarian being second only to the samurai in the party.

    Code:
    CREATE_PARTY(ELITE)
        ADD_TO_PARTY(ELITE,SAMURAI,9,1000,ATTACK_ENEMIES,0)
        ADD_TO_PARTY(ELITE,WIZARD,8,1500,STEAL_SPELLS,0)
        ADD_TO_PARTY(ELITE,BARBARIAN,8,1000,STEAL_GOLD,0)
        ADD_TO_PARTY(ELITE,GIANT,7,1000,STEAL_SPELLS,0)
    Is there an underlying reason for this?

    Edit: final result by DragonsLover

    I did some tests and all I can say is that the Leader selection is based upon two things: the experience level of the creatures and the order of the creatures added into a party. It's absolutely not related about creature's speed, amount of spells, kind, strength or such. As strange as it may seem, the first two creatures and their level experiences added in the party influence the Leader selection.

    The game will always check for the creature with the highest experience level from the first added to the last added, but there's a weird exception involving the first and second creatures added.

    Here are some examples of parties of 4 members with the leader indicated and their explanations:

    Level 1 <- Leader
    Level 1
    Level 1
    Level 1

    If all the creatures in a party are level 1, the FIRST creature will become the leader. Once one of them is level 2 or above, he becomes the leader.

    Level 1
    Level 1
    Level 2 <- Leader
    Level 1 or 2

    Level 1
    Level 2 <- Leader
    Level 1 or 2
    Level 1 or 2

    Level 2 <- Leader
    Level 1
    Level 1 or 2
    Level 1 or 2

    When more than a creature is of the same highest level, the game takes the first one encountered (from top to bottom) and he becomes the leader, excepted for a case:

    Level 2
    Level 2 <- Leader
    Level 1 or 2
    Level 1 or 2

    As you can see above, when the two first creatures are of the same level, the game will take the SECOND creature added, I don't know why. This also apply when the last creatures are of the same level or lower. Weird, huh? But wait, it's not over!

    Level 3 <- Leader
    Level 1
    Level 1 or 2 or 3
    Level 1 or 2 or 3

    This one's normal because the first encountered creature is the highest experienced creature. But now, the weird part when we add a level to the second creature:

    Level 3
    Level 2 <- Leader
    Level 1 or 2 or 3
    Level 1 or 2 or 3

    In the example above, the FIRST creature has been ignored because the SECOND creature is level 2 or above with an experience level LOWER than the FIRST one. Indeed, you could set the first creature to level 10 and he won't become the leader at all. Again, I don't know what's causing that, but this is what happens. The only way to get rid of that is to set one of the three last creatures to level 4 or above so that he becomes the leader, like as follows:

    Level 3
    Level 2
    Level 1 or 2 or 3
    Level 4 <- Leader

    Level 3
    Level 2
    Level 4 <- Leader
    Level 1 or 2 or 3 or 4

    Level 3
    Level 4 <- Leader
    Level 1 or 2 or 3 or 4
    Level 1 or 2 or 3 or 4

    As long as the third, fourth, fifth, sixth and seventh creatures added don't have an experience level higher than the first one with a minimum experience level of 3, and that the second creature have a LOWER or equal experience level than the first one, the second creature will become the leader. Otherwise, the first highest experienced creature met (from top to bottom) will become the leader.

    Here's a last example:

    Level 8
    Level 6 <- Leader
    Level 7
    Level 3

    Hope this clarify everything!

    Quote Originally Posted by Summary
    • To be sure to set your highest experienced creature as a leader in your party, place it at the second position.
    • To be sure to set your lowest experienced creature (level 2 minimum) or a medium experienced creature as a leader in your party, place it at the second position and place the highest experienced creature of the party at the first position.
    • To be sure to have a level 1 creature as a leader, place it at the first position and make sure that all the members of his party are also of level 1. You can't have a level 1 leader with higher experienced creatures as members.
    Last edited by Duke Ragereaver; May 7th, 2010 at 15:17.


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  2. #2
    Awakening Game Master Metal Gear Rex's Avatar
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    Default Re: Party leadership

    Probably the loyalty level and creature loyalty take part here.

    Barbarian
    CreatureLoyalty = 0
    LoyaltyLevel = 4

    Wizard
    CreatureLoyalty = 0
    LoyaltyLevel = 0

    Perhaps because the Barbarian has loyalty, he will follow the Wizard?
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  3. #3
    Dungeon Keeper Duke Ragereaver's Avatar
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    Default Re: Party leadership

    An intresting thought indeed MGR, I always believed the highest, slowest creature was chosen (they gotta adapt to each other, right?). The Samurai is the strongest, but not the slowest, therefore the system goes a level lower to search for a leader and reaches the Barbarian and Wizard. It chooses the latter because he's the slowest of the two.

    But your theory makes sense because loyalty and creature loyalty, as far I know, don't serve much purpose.

    Running some tests now.

    Edit: On second thoughts, I've made once a party with the Avatar in it, he's the same as the Wizard when talking about loyalty and creature loyalty but the party doesn't follow the Avatar.
    Last edited by Duke Ragereaver; December 22nd, 2009 at 22:29.


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  4. #4
    Awakening Game Master Metal Gear Rex's Avatar
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    Default Re: Party leadership

    Samurai's loyalty is the same as Barbarian's and Knight's set to 0 on both...
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  5. #5
    Dungeon Keeper Duke Ragereaver's Avatar
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    Default Re: Party leadership

    Quote Originally Posted by Metal Gear Rex View Post
    Samurai's loyalty is the same as Barbarian's and Knight's set to 0 on both...
    What about my theory?


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  6. #6
    Awakening Game Master Metal Gear Rex's Avatar
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    Default Re: Party leadership

    One way to test... increase the speed of the Wizard!

    Or decrease his level to 1...

    I don't see much in the speed, but I do know it could possibly simply be a script thing...

    Barracks should work similar and it is who possesses that becomes leader.
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  7. #7
    Dungeon Keeper Duke Ragereaver's Avatar
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    Default Re: Party leadership

    I've taken 3 quick, different scenario's, the results were mixed (though it was funny to see a giant Samurai leader besides his tiny party on the last one).

    Scenario 1
    Code:
    CREATE_PARTY(ELITE)
        ADD_TO_PARTY(ELITE,SAMURAI,1,1000,ATTACK_ENEMIES,0)
        ADD_TO_PARTY(ELITE,WIZARD,1,1500,STEAL_SPELLS,0)
        ADD_TO_PARTY(ELITE,BARBARIAN,1,1000,STEAL_GOLD,0)
        ADD_TO_PARTY(ELITE,GIANT,10,1000,STEAL_SPELLS,0)
    Leader: Giant (confirmed, highest level + slowest)

    Scenario 2
    Code:
    CREATE_PARTY(ELITE)
        ADD_TO_PARTY(ELITE,SAMURAI,8,1000,ATTACK_ENEMIES,0)
        ADD_TO_PARTY(ELITE,WIZARD,8,1500,STEAL_SPELLS,0)
        ADD_TO_PARTY(ELITE,BARBARIAN,8,1000,STEAL_GOLD,0)
        ADD_TO_PARTY(ELITE,GIANT,8,1000,STEAL_SPELLS,0)
    Leader: Wizard (equal to the others but technicly the giant is slower, maybe because the giant can get speed later on?)

    Scenario 3
    Code:
    CREATE_PARTY(ELITE)
        ADD_TO_PARTY(ELITE,SAMURAI,10,1000,ATTACK_ENEMIES,0)
        ADD_TO_PARTY(ELITE,WIZARD,1,1500,STEAL_SPELLS,0)
        ADD_TO_PARTY(ELITE,BARBARIAN,1,1000,STEAL_GOLD,0)
        ADD_TO_PARTY(ELITE,GIANT,1,1000,STEAL_SPELLS,0)
    Leader: Samurai (strongest but obvious not slowest)
    Last edited by Duke Ragereaver; December 22nd, 2009 at 23:03.


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  8. #8
    Imp Death's Avatar
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    Default Re: Party leadership

    Isn't there an unseen formula that calculates the strongest creature in the group? The outcome will decide the leader?
    Maybe Bullfrog implented that the Wizard is stronger because of it's spells..

  9. #9
    Hellhound Searingflame2's Avatar
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    Default Re: Party leadership

    I'd have thought it was something to do with hidden values such as leadership quality. Example be with the Orc; as far as i know, the orc will always recieve leadership of the party in the barracks, even if he's one of the lowest levels.

    Perhaps with level and speed comes leadership, therefore sometimes a lower level but higher speed or jazz will take leadership.

    Just throwing a thought out there; if its retarded, don't catch it on its way down!

  10. #10
    Dungeon Keeper Duke Ragereaver's Avatar
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    Default Re: Party leadership

    Isn't there an unseen formula that calculates the strongest creature in the group? The outcome will decide the leader?
    Maybe Bullfrog implented that the Wizard is stronger because of it's spells..
    That would be logical, however I did some new tests by adding an Avatar to the party, and changing in some scenarios the Wizard into a Warlock (Sorceror). And one would think the Avatar would always take the lead because he's by far the strongest unit, even at lower levels, my tests show otherwise. I also thought leadership was also influenced by gold the creature/hero in question, but that was wrong again.

    My guess that Searingflame's theory does some sort of role, but because leadership qualities are hidden values we cannot know for sure.

    Scenario 4
    Code:
    CREATE_PARTY(ELITE)
        ADD_TO_PARTY(ELITE,SAMURAI,10,1000,ATTACK_ENEMIES,0)
        ADD_TO_PARTY(ELITE,SORCEROR,10,1500,STEAL_SPELLS,0)
        ADD_TO_PARTY(ELITE,BARBARIAN,10,1000,STEAL_GOLD,0)
        ADD_TO_PARTY(ELITE,GIANT,10,1000,STEAL_SPELLS,0)
        ADD_TO_PARTY(ELITE,AVATAR,10,2000,ATTACK_ENEMIES,0)
    Leader: Warlock (most spells)

    Scenario 5
    Code:
    CREATE_PARTY(ELITE)
        ADD_TO_PARTY(ELITE,SAMURAI,9,1000,ATTACK_ENEMIES,0)
        ADD_TO_PARTY(ELITE,SORCEROR,8,1500,STEAL_SPELLS,0)
        ADD_TO_PARTY(ELITE,BARBARIAN,8,1000,STEAL_GOLD,0)
        ADD_TO_PARTY(ELITE,GIANT,7,1000,STEAL_SPELLS,0)
        ADD_TO_PARTY(ELITE,AVATAR,8,2000,ATTACK_ENEMIES,0)
    Leader: Warlock (equal spells to Avatar)

    Scenario 6
    Code:
    CREATE_PARTY(ELITE)
        ADD_TO_PARTY(ELITE,SAMURAI,9,1000,ATTACK_ENEMIES,0)
        ADD_TO_PARTY(ELITE,SORCEROR,8,1500,STEAL_SPELLS,0)
        ADD_TO_PARTY(ELITE,BARBARIAN,8,1000,STEAL_GOLD,0)
        ADD_TO_PARTY(ELITE,GIANT,7,1000,STEAL_SPELLS,0)
        ADD_TO_PARTY(ELITE,AVATAR,9,2000,ATTACK_ENEMIES,0)
    Leader: Warlock (has 8 spells vs Avatar's 9)

    Scenario 7
    Code:
    CREATE_PARTY(ELITE)
        ADD_TO_PARTY(ELITE,SAMURAI,9,1000,ATTACK_ENEMIES,0)
        ADD_TO_PARTY(ELITE,WIZARD,8,1500,STEAL_SPELLS,0)
        ADD_TO_PARTY(ELITE,BARBARIAN,8,1000,STEAL_GOLD,0)
        ADD_TO_PARTY(ELITE,GIANT,7,1000,STEAL_SPELLS,0)
        ADD_TO_PARTY(ELITE,AVATAR,9,2000,ATTACK_ENEMIES,0)
    Leader: Wizard

    Scenario 8
    Code:
    CREATE_PARTY(ELITE)
        ADD_TO_PARTY(ELITE,SAMURAI,9,1000,ATTACK_ENEMIES,0)
        ADD_TO_PARTY(ELITE,WIZARD,7,1500,STEAL_SPELLS,0)
        ADD_TO_PARTY(ELITE,BARBARIAN,8,1000,STEAL_GOLD,0)
        ADD_TO_PARTY(ELITE,GIANT,7,1000,STEAL_SPELLS,0)
        ADD_TO_PARTY(ELITE,AVATAR,8,2000,ATTACK_ENEMIES,0)
    Leader: Wizard (note he's a far lower levels than the others)
    Last edited by Duke Ragereaver; December 23rd, 2009 at 09:19.


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