KeeperFX Unofficial - continued development - alpha builds

[spartahawk]

I just feel like being able to grind experience off of unconcious creatures feels like a bug and, if not, very poor design.

There's a chance this is easy to fix, if it is a real problem. But I hope you'd agree it's pretty low priority compared to a lot of other fixes the game could use. I'll look at it sometime, and maybe we can see if it makes any meaningful difference at all.

Little things like this are kind of funny though, with the right perspective. How very Dungeon-Keeper-like: You can continue to gain a small amount of experience by even kicking a body while it's down and unconscious. Total self-centered disrespect for the nearly-dead.

And I don't know how big the change would be if they would actually die when taking damage while passed out, most battle fields have poison gas, meteors, hailstorms, word of power attacks that could decimate prisoners.

I've noticed that many types of attacks (that were not intended to hit the unconscious unit, but rather a conscious unit near it) kill the enemy while they're unconscious. It's always bothered me. Do you think it would be better to make it so that no type of attack can have the collateral damage done to unconscious units? Or is that a good challenge/element of fight-management?

[YourMaster]

Really? I don't think currently any of the attacks kill unconscious units. There are a few attacks that kill rather than stun units, and indeed I think that's part of the management.

[spartahawk]

> There are a few attacks that kill rather than stun units, and indeed I think that's part of the management.

Maybe that's what I saw. Been awhile since I really sat down and played.

[animatrix]

thanks a lot

[Edwin]

Don't know if it is a bug or anything, but when playing keeperfx 0.4.6 (1863 alpha) in Snuggledell, the imps of the rival keeper are keeping 1 flowerpetal of health after a battle like when having inprisonment on. I do have a prison build but the take prison is not active. The keeper does have a prison and captures any of my creatures when defeated on his claimed tiles.

[YourMaster]

I just tried it, and it doesn't happen for me. I've also never seen it. Could you share a saved game where this happens?

Might it be friendly fire, where blue hit his own imps somehow?

[Edwin]

here is a save file with the unconsious imps

fx1g0001.zip

[YourMaster]

Thanks. I see you've got a totally custom config, but I managed to load your saved game. And it is indeed caused by a change in the Alpha.

The meteor spell now explodes correctly, causing it to do area damage more often. That area damage also does a bit of friendly fire damage, but enough to hurt the imps. There is a fix in KeeperFX that causes friendly-fire to no longer 'imprison' units, but apparently this only goes for direct damage, not indirect damage. So, it's the meteors from the blue dragons that caused the blue imps to faint.
You can try for yourself by enabling imprisonment, locking a dragon in a room of friendly imps and firing meteor a few times. Imps you hit directly will die, imps caught in the explosion will faint.

And that seems to be by design, see here.

Question to everybody, should the imps die, or is the current behavior ok?

[Woudo]

Gib damage should be instant death. Otherwise imprison.

[Gold Knight]

Question to everybody, should the imps die, or is the current behavior ok?

I feel like consistency should be prioritised - friendly fire of any form should either always kill or always knock out (with imprisonment on). Whichever way you look at it, it is more confusing if direct damage causes death, but indirect damage does not - and for what benefit? The current behaviour certainly feels a lot more like a bug, and this thread's existence demonstrates that.

Besides, does the current behaviour even make logical sense? Having imprisonment on suddenly makes your Imps immune to the splash damage from your Dragons' meteors (amonst other things)... feels clunky and completely unrelated to me.