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Thread: KeeperFX Unofficial - continued development - alpha builds

  
  1. #81
    Ghost
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    Default Re: KeeperFX Unofficial - continued development - alpha builds

    Quote Originally Posted by YourMaster View Post
    But like I said, the random bounce is not coming back unless the entire feature is reverted.
    Remove the use of grenade until you can make that happen then. Cause now you introduce something which doesn't supposed to work like it does now.

    If you use these spells in a 1on1 battle they might look and feel fine. But if you use them in a 20on20 battle you just can't control anything anymore. It's just a splash fest of damage and minions flying around which you can't micro anymore.

    You say things are bugs, but what if Bullfrog did it on purpose cause they also concluded it doesn't play great if everything splashed around?
    The grenade is a great spell for 1st person mode, but an army auto spamming them is just not going to work even after changing the whole thing. (which is something A custom mapmaker can do, but you shouldn't do to the original game)


    Fixing the path finding should be one of the higher priorities indeed. Next would be the rooms spamming (workshops, barracks mostly) of the AI. Which can be (temporarily) fixed by limiting the amount of tiles they can use.


    On a different note, what is the AI looking for when it digs around rocks? Sometimes they mess up their whole dungeon with digging around the rocks. They know the map layout so "looking" for things in that way doesn't really do anything for them.

  2. #82

    Default Re: KeeperFX Unofficial - continued development - alpha builds

    I have not introduced it in the main game, but in an alpha version. That's the only way to get feedback, and I need feedback. I like it how it is now just fine, the whole point of this alpha is to let other people play around with it as well to see if everything works as intended and if they have any other problems with it like you have now.
    And you misunderstand the bouncing,.... I could have enabled the spell from the very start, but because it lacked targeting units can't make sense of it. The new feature is that the random bounce is gone and it is sort of targeted. High dexterity units manage to throw it closer than low dexterity units, but they are always somewhere in the general direction.

    I liked the fact that the grenade causes some blow and throws units around a bit, and does some splash damage. It gives the combat just a little additional dept.

    And when you look at the code you can quite easily see what bugs are and what not. To use a familiar example, the original lvl18 had a bug in the code, they programmed a loop to keep spawning low level units near the white hearth, but made a mistake that caused the units to not spawn. DragonsLover fixed the bug, causing countless units to spawn, a ridiculous amount in fact which people rightfully disliked. This was the exact same situation as with meteor, it's clearly a bug that is there, but having the bug fixed causes an effect the testers have never seen and never balanced for. And it could have very well been the case if the bug was fixed, they would have removed the feature all together, but they didn't. In this case it is no longer important to talk about what the developers intended, because although they never intended the bug to be there, they surely would have changed their mind on stuff if they ever saw if fixed.
    On meteor specifically, there's simply a configuration that can say how much blow a spell has. And they simply could have programmed the spell without any blow in mind. But in fact they programmed the spell to explode, with a piece of code to calculate the distance between the units that should get damaged and the meteor to determine the damage, and have a mistake there that tells the code that there's a wall in the way when there's not. That's how you know it's a bug.

    And no, the AI does not know the map layout. They do find stuff with wall-hug, they don't know how to effectively dig to something on the other side of rocks. It's less frequent now that they destroy their own dungeon in the process, but it could still be better.

  3. #83
    Ghost
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    Default Re: KeeperFX Unofficial - continued development - alpha builds

    And you misunderstand the bouncing,.... I could have enabled the spell from the very start, but because it lacked targeting units can't make sense of it.
    And that's why it shouldn't be used by the AI. (yet..) It's a random thing, keep it a random thing. If the AI doesn't understand that, than it shouldn't be used by the AI. Tinkering with values doesn't change that. Basically you have added a new spell to the game, which shouldn't be the point of KeeperFX. It's a good thing that it is possible to do! For creative mapmakers these things are great. But you shouldn't force it to the game. With the argument of: "it was broken, so it needed fixing" No, it's not broken, it's just not properly usable for the AI. Same goes for spells like, Hold Audience and Armageddon, they are player spells and should not be used by the AI.

    I liked the fact that the grenade causes some blow and throws units around a bit, and does some splash damage. It gives the combat just a little additional dept.
    I disagree.. The dept is completely gone with this addition. I even work around battles with the AI now, if it has creatures with grenade, cause it's just not fun building up an army and then just lose it in a battle of less than a minute.
    I'm glad there's the Frameskip option, so I can slowly (but still fast) kill the AI by claiming it's stuff with conceal and doors, so it doesn't drop creatures.

    It's nice that you experiment with things, but don't force them to the game, just because you like them. (It's the same as the modifications dragonslover did a while back, some were nice, others were just personal additions which again, shouldn't be forced on every player)

    In a nutshell, the grenade spell isn't bugged, it's the AI that needs help in this case. So if you want the grenade to be used, update the AI and not the grenade. (and again, if it then still messes up the gameplay, it just should not be used..)

  4. #84

    Default Re: KeeperFX Unofficial - continued development - alpha builds

    The change to the grenade is not a bug-fix, it's a new feature. My argument here is not 'it's broken, it needed fixing', my argument here: 'I think this is a very nice addition to the game, please let me know what you think.'
    I think this feature turns a spell that is detrimental to the game to a positive addition, but it's not about what I like, and not just what you like either. Although I certainly hear your feedback. I also saw feedback above, for others that DO like it. Gold Knight also responded, he didn't like the idea, but have not heard back from him after he tried it.

    Now I'm certainly not ignoring you, but it's a waste to simply kill everything as soon as there's somebody who dislikes something. Instead, I'll first try to understand what you don't like about a certain change, and see if I can tweak it until it no longer harms your game, but it still improves the game for people who do like it. Failing that, I can always remove it later. People not wanting to play with the experiments can play the main release. Although I do hope many people play the Alpha, as I would like to get plenty of feedback from as many people as possible.

  5. #85

    Default Re: KeeperFX Unofficial - continued development - alpha builds

    When I get a chance i'll test the build with the changes and let you know what I think.

    Idk about the rest of you, but I feel like the fly, ghost, and beetle could possibly use a little tweaking to make some excuse to keep them around.

  6. #86

    Default Re: KeeperFX Unofficial - continued development - alpha builds

    Hello, YourMaster thank you for your amazing work. I really like that you are helping to make this great game even better.
    I count myself as a dungeon keeper veteran (playing since 1998) and I have two suggestions for a next patch.
    1. in the original game if you click on the icon (face) of a unit in the status bar, the one with the highest level will be picked up. I really liked this feature but it seemed to be lost with Keeper FX. Can you bring it back?
    2. Units are using the healing spell when they are low on health. Dragons got so much HP that the spell only recovers a little bit of their health. They could use the spell much earlier. Is there a way to accomplish this?

    Thank you and greetings from Germany

  7. #87

    Default Re: KeeperFX Unofficial - continued development - alpha builds

    1) I'm also not happy with the creature pickup behavior as it is now, and many people come to ask. See this issue. I've tried, but I could not fix it myself. Do note that it's not that it just doesn't work anymore, but Mefisto changed it to Ctrl+click to pickup the strongest unit. So you can still pickup strongest units if you want to.

    2) Yes actually, you can tweak the HealRequirement setting. Unfortunately, that also means that it will go to sleep until it is healed enough if it needs to cast the spell more than once or does not have access to the spell.

  8. #88

    Default Re: KeeperFX Unofficial - continued development - alpha builds

    Thank you. ctrl+click works fine for me.
    Quote Originally Posted by YourMaster View Post
    2) Yes actually, you can tweak the HealRequirement setting
    So editing the dragon.cfg in the creatrs folder of KeeperFX and change the HealRequirement setting from 150 to lets say 400 will do the job?

  9. #89

    Default Re: KeeperFX Unofficial - continued development - alpha builds

    Yes, but it will go to sleep more often as well.

  10. #90

    Default Re: KeeperFX Unofficial - continued development - alpha builds

    Since Dragons gain the Heal ability at level 2 I think this won´t matter much.

    Btw can you tell me what the "HealThreshold" does?

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