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Thread: Few Questions about KeeperFX

  
  1. #11

    Default Re: Few Questions about KeeperFX

    Bile demons are so worth it. Sure, they don't train that fast, and require quite a bit of lair and food, but they are really, really strong. Even a bunch of medium level bile demons can do quite some damage. The only units they team-kill are units not worth having around anyway, trolls and insects won't matter much in your army when you've got bile demons. Undead units are immune to their gas, ranged units should not be harmed by the gas, and Dragons have enough HP for the gas to not matter much. In the early levels, when you've got weak units around your biles, simply enable 'flee'(the icon next to imprison).

    And perhaps it's not your age, but you've become better at keeping your units in the training room. Training costs will drain your gold the quickest, and salaries of highly trained units also add up. Don't worry though, all campaign maps can easily be defeated with the units you've got trained up by the time your gold runs out.

  2. #12

    Default Re: Few Questions about KeeperFX

    Yeah that's probably it. I'm finding that once I've mined all the gold available, taking people off training with like 10k/15k to spare and going out and doing some exploring usually pays off and I'm the right level.

    Quick creature tiering list. Is this about right?

    Top Tier:

    – Mistress
    – Bile Demon
    – Horned Reaper (If you've got gems)
    – Dragon
    – Vampire
    – Orc

    Mid Tier

    – Warlock
    – Spider
    – Skeleton

    Low Tier

    – Everything else?

  3. #13

    Default Re: Few Questions about KeeperFX

    The reaper is the strongest creature by far of course, but expensive to train and maintain.
    Mistresses and Bile Demons are the best regular units to have. Cheap, extremely powerful in fights, easy to manage. I think this will round the top tier.

    Vampires and Dragons are strong units, but they are both quite expensive, tanky, but low on damage.
    The Orc is a very easy to manage unit, but far weaker than the others so far. The Hell Hound and Tentacle are a bit weaker still, but I'm still willing to add them to mid tier since they have their uses and are quite a bit more powerful than the units in low tier.

    Warlocks and Skeletons are ok I guess, but I'd still toss them if you've not reached the portal limit. Demon Spawn, are really just early game units, Trolls just worth it for the temple or if you somehow need them in the workshop and ghosts and insects are pretty much useless. They'd all go in the low tier.

  4. #14

    Default Re: Few Questions about KeeperFX

    Please forgive Mark, he's old and doesn't understand how tier lists work. Let me translate for you;

    ELDER GOD TIER:
    Horned Reaper

    DEMIGOD TIER:
    Bile Demon
    Mistress

    FUCKING INVINCIBLE TIER:
    Vampire
    Dragon

    COULD BE WORSE TIER:
    Orc
    Tentacle
    Hell Hound

    WORSE TIER:
    Warlock
    Troll
    Skeleton

    GET THE FUCK OUT OF MY DUNGEON TIER:
    Fly
    Beetle
    Demon Spawn
    Spider
    Ghost

    Personally think Mark is WRONG about Spiders being bad. They make great support units.

  5. #15

    Default Re: Few Questions about KeeperFX

    Against what? Against anything that doesn't do ranged damage, area damage, rebound or kill them in a single hit? Sure, you could micromanage one of them as a mobile freeze-spell dispenser, but then take the tentacle, that has some pretty decent damage output and can takes some damage as well.

    And trolls belong right there with the demon spawn and spiders at the bottom.
    Last edited by YourMaster; April 18th, 2018 at 19:28.

  6. #16

    Default Re: Few Questions about KeeperFX

    My experience:

    Warlocks are mostly useless. Expensive and can be bothersome with whirlwind. Also they clash with vampires. I rather have them as skeletons.

    So skeletons can be an asset for the dungeon - but watch their clash with bile demons. They are some kind of discount samurais with their lightning spell - of course they are rather average fighters but amassed and abused as ranged fighters they can take down even tanky foes. They train up very fast and don´t need high wages(and food, if this is a matter).

    Vampires are ok, they can be OP when used right(backing off and the possibility of resurrection with losing one level), but their high wages and long training times(I guess both was implemented to make them not too much OP) makes them more suited for dungeons with much gold.

    Trolls...well, IMHO they are not really needed in a dungeon. Only for sacrificing(for Horny or two trolls for an orc). The concept of having a creature just for work might be interesting, but in fact they are not really useful. Sure, they can manufacture the best, but putting an assload of orcs(see my experience with them) and other guys(maybe bile demons) into the workshop gives the same results - a bunch of traps and doors in a short time(and then the useless crap like wooden doors and alarm traps stays until the end in the workshop...because it makes only sense to fill up the stock of magic doors and the stronger traps).

    Bile demons are of couse some of the best units, especially when spammed. Sure, the gas issue can be a bit bothersome, but ironically you can mix them well with their arch enemies(skeletons) in battle, or with vampires as backup.

    Mistresses are without a doubt also some of the best creatures - but they really need to be trained up, with drain(healing) they are nearly invincible when backing up. Also, there is the kinky joy of spanking their asses to increase their happiness .

    Orcs are IMO good units - sure, they don´t deal as much damage as the bile demons and other stronger fighters, but they train very fast, are decent manufacturers especially with speed spell which is also a good bonus for fighting as they can reach ranged units faster than medium-speed creatures.

    Dragons, well, I changed my opinion about them a while ago. In theory they might be strong, in fact they are just useless over-expensive meat shields that tend to kill themselves with meteor spamming against rebound units and don´t stand any chance against ranged fighters especially these with healing ability. So one might end up having an endless battle because both side healing themselves quicker than the damage goes. Their only real use is the abuse of the flame breath in possession mode...I tend to get rid of them if they come in my dungeon as they only empty my treasure room in a too short time. Sometimes I keep one or two of them for the abuse...otherwise not.

    Hell hounds...well, IMO totally useless creatures. Weak and more a nuisance due to their habit to scout and get into battles with stronger foes. They aren´t even useful as discount dragons due to their lack of healing ability.

    Tentacles...they can be ok if used the right way. Someone described them as upgraded beatles...well, yes, somehow that fits. They can be useful with their freeze spell(if not fighting against rebound-abled creatures) and can take some damage. In Skybird Trill I converted the bunch to my side, and they even survived the final battle against the heroes.

    Horned Reaper...well, for sure he is a mixed bag. He can easily mow down even ranged fighters with healing ability and most melee fighters, but he is far away from a one-man-army. Due to his high training costs it might be recommended to train up the sacrifice creatures to avoid that. And of course his mood must be watched - however with a temple I never had much issues when they had their period.

    Flys...well, in some levels they are good for research, not due to their abilities, but because they can be sacrificed to get the next research level. Otherwise...well, they are merely stronger than imps, so useless.

    Spiders...I found them rather useless aside being part of sacrificing receipts. Their spells don´t make up the weak melee damage and low HP. Also their habit of freezing prisoners is very annoying...so thanks, but no thanks to spiders.

    Ghost...well, a somehow underrated creature. Sure, they have low HP and strenght, but having one or two ghosts can be useful for the whirlwind trick and for exploring because they have the invisibility spell and can go through doors. Talking about sneaking into an enemies dungeon and destroying the heart... their rebound ability also makes them useful against missile spammers.

  7. #17

    Default Re: Few Questions about KeeperFX

    Quote Originally Posted by Noanechu View Post
    Hell hounds...well, IMO totally useless creatures. Weak and more a nuisance due to their habit to scout and get into battles with stronger foes. They aren´t even useful as discount dragons due to their lack of healing ability.
    Hell hounds are so underrated. They do tend to pick fights, true, but not if you assign them to training. They are finished with training quickly, but this is a good thing. Keep them occupied in the workshop or guardpost or whatever.
    They tend to lose many 1-on-1 fights, but they are the evil-version of giants, a lot quicker of course. If you make sure they don't take damage(by for example sending in dragons or orcs first), they deal so much damage themselves. And they can clean up spellcasters like nobodies business(especially with the dragonslover balance patch removed and they no longer waste time throwing a fireball). This is helped a lot by their lava-walk and high speed, so they can easily take out fairies flying over lava lakes or wizards guarding on lava-islands.

  8. #18

    Default Re: Few Questions about KeeperFX

    Quote Originally Posted by YourMaster View Post
    Hell hounds are so underrated. They do tend to pick fights, true, but not if you assign them to training. They are finished with training quickly, but this is a good thing. Keep them occupied in the workshop or guardpost or whatever.
    They tend to lose many 1-on-1 fights, but they are the evil-version of giants, a lot quicker of course. If you make sure they don't take damage(by for example sending in dragons or orcs first), they deal so much damage themselves. And they can clean up spellcasters like nobodies business(especially with the dragonslover balance patch removed and they no longer waste time throwing a fireball). This is helped a lot by their lava-walk and high speed, so they can easily take out fairies flying over lava lakes or wizards guarding on lava-islands.
    To me that sounds like theory. Sure, the combination of fast hitting and flamebreathing should deal some damage...but then again they don´t have that high strenght and not many HP. I once tried to solve Flowerhat just for fun with the transferred hound...he nearly got killed.
    Also why bothering to put them in workshops when there are even more capable creatures for manufacturing and when the workshop is full(and this will happen), they will again be doing their annoying scouting. Ok, you might put them on guard posts or in the temple, but this means for me "put this useless creature somewhere where it doesn´t bother me". I rather deal with fairies with keeper lightning(or reapers or mistresses...whatever). Wizards on lava islands, I rather deal with them with some skeletons if I don´t have mistresses or reapers, the hell hound will soon be stopped by the freeze spell.

    Why evil version of giants? Maybe if giants in DK1 could walk over lava like in DK2, but you know, the can´t. They aren´t really comparable. IMO giants are a thing of their own. Like some berserk barbarians trading HP and speed for brute force(adding speed on L10 makes them kind of discount reapers), with the bonus of being immune to whirlwind.
    Last edited by Noanechu; April 20th, 2018 at 00:06.

  9. #19

    Default Re: Few Questions about KeeperFX

    No, that's how I use them, and I'm not alone. You put them in the workshop or guardpost when they are level 10 to stop them from getting themselves killed, so they do take some management there. Having to do stuff with your lvl 10 units isn't that much of a problem I think.
    If you've got a few hounds, they will melt through spellcasters like nobodies business. Skeletons and Mistresses can't walk over lava, with hounds, you cast CTA, and have them sweep through everything. You don't have to like them, they take some skill to use, and you can easily go without them, but they can be really effective if used well. Their speed in reaching shooters is unparalleled. (Yeah, reapers are better, and when you have reapers, you can use them instead, but that goes for every unit).

    And hounds are like giants in the sense that they are high dps, low health units. Glass cannons if you will. Not that great in a 1-on-1 fight, but if there's some other unit to draw aggro, very effective.

  10. #20

    Default Re: Few Questions about KeeperFX

    If it works for you, ok. But for me they are more hassle than good.
    Yes, skeletons and mistresses can´t walk over lava, but with 5-6 of them spamming lightning and drain on these will quickly die anyway, so it´s not a big issue.

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