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Thread: Few Questions about KeeperFX

  
  1. #1

    Default Few Questions about KeeperFX

    Hi everyone,

    I've been looking to get back in to Dungeon Keeper again after a long (probably ten year) break and I was really happy to hear that people are now working on it to bring it up to spec for modern computers.

    I'm probably going to play the original campaign and – if I don't get too frustrated – the Deeper Dungeons.

    I have a few questions about KeeperFX I'd appreciate if someone could help me answer:

    1. What is support like at the moment for higher resolutions, e.g. 720p/1080p? Would this make the game look way too small? Is there a happy medium between old DK resolutions and modern ones that the game looks good on and is stable on?

    2. What are the material balance changes I should know about between KeeperFX and the original Dungeon Keeper + Deeper Dungeons? Is there anything I should look out for? What about changes to AI? What would you say are the five main changes?

    3. Are there any improvements coming to KeeperFX soon that would be worth waiting for before I start playing? If not, for a relatively casual player, what version of KeeperFX should I go for?

    4. Do you have any recommendations for additional content for the game? While I appreciate some players like to really push the game to its limits through levels designed around bugs/weird tricks (sort of like Ancient Keeper from what I've seen online), I'd more be looking for content in the style of the original campaign/deeper dungeons.

    I really value an experience that's closer to the vanilla dungeon keeper.

    Thanks

  2. #2

    Default Re: Few Questions about KeeperFX

    Welcome.

    1. You can play in higher resolutions just fine. And it won't get too small, because the graphics are scaled to the exact same size they were before. The downside to this of course is that there's little benefit to actually upping the resolution. The game is stable in any resolution.

    2. There's really not that much difference in balance for casual players to notice. I'd say the biggest change would be the fixing of the stat bugs, that in the original game would make lvl10 creatures weaker than lvl9 creatures and powerful creatures like horned reapers weak at higher levels in general. The AI is massively improved - although still far from perfect - in that it can now properly assign units to rooms and thus will end up with a respectable army. Other big changes are that workshops now don't fill up with bugged crates and that keepers will defend their dungeon heart.

    3. No, play away. Development to KeeperFX has stopped for years now, be sure to get KeeperFX Unofficial to get the latest version with the most new features and the fewest bugs. If you want to play a cutting edge version, look here instead.

    4. There really aren't that many levels build around bugs, that's mostly just Ancient Keeper. KeeperFX comes included with quite a few campaigns already. There's also plenty of maps to download, here and here, but truth be told there's not much content out there that's universally praised. My personal suggestion would be to try some stuff from the second 'here'.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Few Questions about KeeperFX

    Fantastic! Thanks very much for the help.

    Really looking forward to playing this great game again.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Few Questions about KeeperFX

    Hey mate I've got another quick follow up question.

    Is it possible to zoom out further than the default with KeeperFX?

  5. #5

    Default Re: Few Questions about KeeperFX

    No. Sparta and I quickly looked into it recently to make this possible, because the zoom-out max is a simple value limit. However, when those limits are changed, you can in fact zoom out further, but it only renders the same viewport. So you have a small space visible, and the rest is all blacked out. So it would require a bit more work to try and get this to work. Right now the focus is trying to solve the pathfinding bug, so don't expect any changes soon. (and soon would already be weeks or months, not days).

  6. #6

    Default Re: Few Questions about KeeperFX

    Quote Originally Posted by YourMaster View Post
    No. Sparta and I quickly looked into it recently to make this possible, because the zoom-out max is a simple value limit. However, when those limits are changed, you can in fact zoom out further, but it only renders the same viewport. So you have a small space visible, and the rest is all blacked out. So it would require a bit more work to try and get this to work. Right now the focus is trying to solve the pathfinding bug, so don't expect any changes soon. (and soon would already be weeks or months, not days).
    Ah fair enough. Sounds like a tough fix.

    What's the pathfinding bug and should I watch out for it?

  7. #7

    Default Re: Few Questions about KeeperFX

    There's very little you can do about it. Path-finding is units determining a route from place A to B on the map. When you've got maps with many possible routes, especially when they cross water/lava multiple times, the game will freeze. Sometimes you get warned by slowdowns or units not finding stuff they should be able to find just fine (like imps not finding the way back to the treasure room), but sometimes the game will just freeze without warning.

    This bug was already in the original game, and the original maps are mostly save. In some levels you might get into trouble in rare situations if the AI Keepers build too large and complex dungeons, or if you do the same, the solution would be to play to win, not to continue indefinitely. Several custom maps you can download do suffer from it though, and it limits what mapmakers can do with maps.

    If your game freezes/crashes, simply check the log, and when you'll have all kind of mentions of 'triangle errors', it's the pathfinding bug.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Few Questions about KeeperFX

    Quote Originally Posted by YourMaster View Post
    There's very little you can do about it. Path-finding is units determining a route from place A to B on the map. When you've got maps with many possible routes, especially when they cross water/lava multiple times, the game will freeze. Sometimes you get warned by slowdowns or units not finding stuff they should be able to find just fine (like imps not finding the way back to the treasure room), but sometimes the game will just freeze without warning.

    This bug was already in the original game, and the original maps are mostly save. In some levels you might get into trouble in rare situations if the AI Keepers build too large and complex dungeons, or if you do the same, the solution would be to play to win, not to continue indefinitely. Several custom maps you can download do suffer from it though, and it limits what mapmakers can do with maps.

    If your game freezes/crashes, simply check the log, and when you'll have all kind of mentions of 'triangle errors', it's the pathfinding bug.
    Gotcha, thanks.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Few Questions about KeeperFX

    1. Like stated from YourMaster you can use higher resolutions, but if this is an advantage was recently debated - IMHO it is not. It also does not support widescreen rations(except for low-res 16:10 320x200 or 640x400), so you have black bars on your monitor anyway(I presume you have a widescreen one - just like mostly used today).
    2. Smaller things, the Word of Power Spell does now do damage as opposed to the original game, and some speech that was unused in the original is now hearable - like the message about a found secret box, and creatures now moan when put into rooms they don´t like. Otherwise not so much.
    3. I played the game several times with different versions with no problems. There are of course some differences between them, but you can read which.
    4. I haven´t played all campaigns so far, but you might like Conquest of the Arctic(which is not so difficult except for level 2, and the moon level is not winnable with the newest version), KDK campaign is also ok for casual stuff. Good campaign was however disappointing.
    Currently I´m testing Evil Keeper - it´s ok if you don´t mind that they just recycled the original texts.

    Just my 2 cents.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Few Questions about KeeperFX

    I've noticed that enemy keepers definitely seem to be a bit smarter.

    I was able to cut-off the enemy Keeper from the gems on level 8 ("Tickle") and after a certain amount of time (probably when he ran out of gold?) he actually built a bridge and came over to attack me. I was in a much better position than he was at that stage and killed everything he had.

    What do you guys think about Bile Demons btw? I'm kinda of the mind that they might be more trouble than they're worth because of the AoE they have that harms your own units. It's pretty damn annoying seeing your own units get killed.

    Also I'm not sure if it's a change implemented by KeeperFX, or if I've grown more cautious as I've gotten older, but I'm definitely feeling the pressure to expand on levels with gems on them. Always feel like I'm running out of money quickly.

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