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Thread: Re-balance needed?

  
  1. #1
    KeeperFX Author mefistotelis's Avatar
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    Default Re-balance needed?

    I just noticed that dexterity fix and increase in attack power on higher creature levels have influenced gameplay on some maps.

    I just played map 15 - where there are two keepers besides human. In this map, at some point a hero party emerges and goes towards blue keeper. In original DK, blue keeper usually (not always) gets destroyed, but then green keeper is attacked, and he easily kills the remains of hero force.

    In KeeperFX, the hero party always destroys both keepers (sooner or later the green keeper diggs to water, and then the knights that survived battle with blue are heading toward him).

    Maybe hero parties should be modified to be a bit weaker in KeeperFX?

  2. #2
    Elite Dragon Mothrayas's Avatar
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    Default Re: Re-balance needed?

    Modify the hero creatures' stats to something lower in the script for that level. Or redesign the level so the AI won't dig out as early.

    It's not necessary to modify hero strength in the entire game and lower the challenge in almost all other levels for this.

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  3. #3
    Awakening Game Master Metal Gear Rex's Avatar
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    Default Re: Re-balance needed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mothrayas View Post
    Modify the hero creatures' stats to something lower in the script for that level. Or redesign the level so the AI won't dig out as early.

    It's not necessary to modify hero strength in the entire game and lower the challenge in almost all other levels for this.
    If you noticed my skirmish version of this map, I have made impentrable rock at the edges so the computers don't dig out too soon by accident. This provids a much greater challange.
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  4. #4
    Fly Trotim's Avatar
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    Default Re: Re-balance needed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mothrayas View Post
    Modify the hero creatures' stats to something lower in the script for that level. Or redesign the level so the AI won't dig out as early.

    It's not necessary to modify hero strength in the entire game and lower the challenge in almost all other levels for this.
    The problem is that it's unlikely this is the only map with this problem, you know?

    The dexterity fix is fine, though I'd love to see the most common battle algorithms (especially how it is calculated if an attack hits or not AND how damage done is calculated on normal attacks). It's probably the other thing that's breaking that level - I forgot, what exactly did that "increase in attack power" do? It would be a lot easier to judge the situation if we could compare all stats before all changes and how it is now.

    I agree that level 15 should have some fix applied to it, but the general issue has to be addressed as well.

  5. #5
    KeeperFX Author mefistotelis's Avatar
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    Default Re: Re-balance needed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Trotim View Post
    I forgot, what exactly did that "increase in attack power" do? It would be a lot easier to judge the situation if we could compare all stats before all changes and how it is now.
    • Melee damage is no longer restricted to 255 (and can go much higher for high level creatures, especially when "lucky shot" happens and it's doubled).
    • Word Of Power makes damage (originally, there was an error that prevented it)
    • Spells for creatures above lv7 have correct stats (originally invalid values were used, so high level spells had incorrect damage and duration)
    Last edited by mefistotelis; March 14th, 2010 at 11:26.

  6. #6
    Fly Trotim's Avatar
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    Default Re: Re-balance needed?

    Quote Originally Posted by mefistotelis View Post
    • Melee damage is no longer restricted to 255 (and can go much higher for high level creatures, especially when "lucky shot" happens and it's doubled).
    • Word Of Power makes damage (originally, there was an error that prevented it)
    • Spells for creatures above lv7 have correct stats (originally invalid values were used, so high level spells had incorrect damage and duration)
    Alright, those all seem sensible enough fixes though. I suppose it IS only the original campaign that should be adjusted, then.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Re-balance needed?

    Quote Originally Posted by mefistotelis View Post
    • Melee damage is no longer restricted to 255 (and can go much higher for high level creatures, especially when "lucky shot" happens and it's doubled).
    • Word Of Power makes damage (originally, there was an error that prevented it)
    • Spells for creatures above lv7 have correct stats (originally invalid values were used, so high level spells had incorrect damage and duration)
    -Melee works fine nothing to change there

    -WOP is way too strong now, maybe they removed the damage on purpose

    -Spells like Heal are nerved really bad now, I would like to see that restored back to the way it was. At high level the spell hardly works anymore. Dragons are even more useless now and support units don't heal enough to take some blows.

    -Remove some spells from creatures
    -Knight with WoP, combined with the damage he's a real pain and not Knight worthy since he is a melee fighter no magic user.
    -Horny with Projectile? If thats a workaround to let him use slow, remove them both. Again he is a melee fighter to support unit.

  8. #8
    Awakening Game Master Metal Gear Rex's Avatar
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    Default Re: Re-balance needed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Krizzie View Post
    -Melee works fine nothing to change there

    -WOP is way too strong now, maybe they removed the damage on purpose

    -Spells like Heal are nerved really bad now, I would like to see that restored back to the way it was. At high level the spell hardly works anymore. Dragons are even more useless now and support units don't heal enough to take some blows.

    -Remove some spells from creatures
    -Knight with WoP, combined with the damage he's a real pain and not Knight worthy since he is a melee fighter no magic user.
    -Horny with Projectile? If thats a workaround to let him use slow, remove them both. Again he is a melee fighter to support unit.
    Well WoP was set to do higher damage, I don't like the "They did it on purpose" excuse because not everything they did there was on purpose. I have it set to 80. At 150, the damage it does is 420 but at 80, it deals 224. This is of course, at level 10 which all creatures except the default Warlock obtain it.

    You have a problem with some of the spells? Well you can easily change them yourself. Those are made from DL's patch. But if you don't want to do that, I can hand you a copy of the original data. I undid mostly everything, just for the sake of having it.
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  9. #9
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    Default Re: Re-balance needed?

    Well I'd rather see them "fixed" I don't want to modify the game to my needs. I mean it's not that the game was imbalenced or something.

    It's only the Healspell

    A Dragon used to have around 25% healing at level 10 and now maybe 5%? Even at level 2 which it used to have around 50% it might come close to 25%. As a Tank that's just not good enough to withstand heavy punnishment.

    Same for some support creatures a warlock at level 10 had around 70% healing, now not even half of that.

  10. #10
    Awakening Game Master Metal Gear Rex's Avatar
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    Default Re: Re-balance needed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Krizzie View Post
    Well I'd rather see them "fixed" I don't want to modify the game to my needs. I mean it's not that the game was imbalenced or something.

    It's only the Healspell

    A Dragon used to have around 25% healing at level 10 and now maybe 5%? Even at level 2 which it used to have around 50% it might come close to 25%. As a Tank that's just not good enough to withstand heavy punnishment.

    Same for some support creatures a warlock at level 10 had around 70% healing, now not even half of that.
    Ah I can send you the original data then still. I fixed the WoP to 80 value because 220 is what the guide says for maximum damage, and I take it that that was their intention. How else would they be getting this information? 224 is the closest possible number to it.

    Percentage of health isn't how it is calqulated, I'm sure. I think I saw some value for it, I don't remember but basically it is healing at a number not percentage. Therefore it doesn't make sense for it to be said not to work just because the percentage isn't right or the same or whatever.

    But maybe I'm wrong, how does it work Mefisto? I remember seeing "Duration" but that was it. Does it basically use the same value as the Keeper Heal Spell fully charged?
    Dungeon Keeper 2 Patch: With More Balance and Pie [Hiatus]
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